What is a zero emissions car?

[Oldspanners]

Before fixing my 31 year old car which is obviously nearing the end of its active life, I had a look around what was available here new or used. There are various schemes with financial inducements for scrapping an old car, buying a "less polluting" newer I/C, Hybrid or full electric car.
That got me thinking that if on average I'd replaced the car every 3 years I'd be on my 10th replacement by now and just how much pollution that would have caused overall to produce.
This zero emissions is of course only at the final point of use (obviously important in cities) but how many Kw did it take to produce this car, transport the materials from around the globe to create the power units, batteries, electronics and even all the plastics and tyres still used in them. And that's before you consider how the electric is generated to charge them and how to dispose of the power packs which still have a very limited life.
In my opinion Zero emissions still has along way to go and is just a slogan at the moment and I don't see any real figures for overall production energy usage or scrapping not to mention energy generation.
For the moment the old car will continue in circulation all be it as a second car.

 

[JBell]

I was told once that over it's lifetime a Prius was more polluting than a V8 Discovery

 

[Blobcat]

Before fixing my 31 year old car which is obviously nearing the end of its active life, I had a look around what was available here new or used. There are various schemes with financial inducements for scrapping an old car, buying a "less polluting" newer I/C, Hybrid or full electric car.
That got me thinking that if on average I'd replaced the car every 3 years I'd be on my 10th replacement by now and just how much pollution that would have caused overall to produce.
This zero emissions is of course only at the final point of use (obviously important in cities) but how many Kw did it take to produce this car, transport the materials from around the globe to create the power units, batteries, electronics and even all the plastics and tyres still used in them. And that's before you consider how the electric is generated to charge them and how to dispose of the power packs which still have a very limited life.
In my opinion Zero emissions still has along way to go and is just a slogan at the moment and I don't see any real figures for overall production energy usage or scrapping not to mention energy generation.
For the moment the old car will continue in circulation all be it as a second car.

It is just a rallying call to get consumers to spend more money

Much better off for the environment maintaining what you already have than constantly buying new

 

[Craiglxviii]

Before fixing my 31 year old car which is obviously nearing the end of its active life, I had a look around what was available here new or used. There are various schemes with financial inducements for scrapping an old car, buying a "less polluting" newer I/C, Hybrid or full electric car.
That got me thinking that if on average I'd replaced the car every 3 years I'd be on my 10th replacement by now and just how much pollution that would have caused overall to produce.
This zero emissions is of course only at the final point of use (obviously important in cities) but how many Kw did it take to produce this car, transport the materials from around the globe to create the power units, batteries, electronics and even all the plastics and tyres still used in them. And that's before you consider how the electric is generated to charge them and how to dispose of the power packs which still have a very limited life.
In my opinion Zero emissions still has along way to go and is just a slogan at the moment and I don't see any real figures for overall production energy usage or scrapping not to mention energy generation.
For the moment the old car will continue in circulation all be it as a second car.

I don’t have the values for an EV. But for a Euro5 turbodiesel car, typically the emissions/ energy involved in its manufacture is around 7% of its typical 8- 10 year service lifetime.

That takes into account the energy costs all the way to winning of iron ore forwards.

 

[LostKiwi]

The emissions vary greatly depending on how electricity is produced.
For example France (large nuclear power generation infrastructure) gas a much lower carbon footprint than say China or India so the electric vehicle emissions are commensurately lower.
Lifetime emissions of a vehicle in a low carbon electricity generating country are significantly lower for EVs than ICE vehicles.
The major thing about zero tailpipe emission vehicles is that they can have near zero carbon emissions whereas an ICE vehicle can never be near zero.

For example if you have a large solar array on your house and only drive within range of your house you could have close to zero emissions (not taking into account manufacturing of vehicle and infrastructure).

Manufacturing carbon footprint is broadly similar irrespective of technology.

Does it make sense to replace a vehicle that functions with a new one? Probably not on the basis of CO2 alone.

We all know however that CO2 is only part of the equation. There are other considerations such as particulates (much lower on EVs) and NOx (near non existent on EVs). Particulates in EVs are lower not just because they don't produce them at the rail pipe but also because regenerative braking means less disc and pad wear.

Does that make it more sensible to scrap ICE vehicles in favour of EVs? Only if there is significant recycling of materials and if the energy used is low emission itself. That last bit really is key. Effective recycling depends on low emission energy sources such as hydro, solar, tidal and wind (and to a lesser extent nuclear).

 

[Craiglxviii]

The emissions vary greatly depending on how electricity is produced.
For example France (large nuclear power generation infrastructure) gas a much lower carbon footprint than say China or India so the electric vehicle emissions are commensurately lower.
Lifetime emissions of a vehicle in a low carbon electricity generating country are significantly lower for EVs than ICE vehicles.
The major thing about zero tailpipe emission vehicles is that they can have near zero carbon emissions whereas an ICE vehicle can never be near zero.

For example if you have a large solar array on your house and only drive within range of your house you could have close to zero emissions (not taking into account manufacturing of vehicle and infrastructure).

Manufacturing carbon footprint is broadly similar irrespective of technology.

Does it make sense to replace a vehicle that functions with a new one? Probably not on the basis of CO2 alone.

We all know however that CO2 is only part of the equation. There are other considerations such as particulates (much lower on EVs) and NOx (near non existent on EVs). Particulates in EVs are lower not just because they don't produce them at the rail pipe but also because regenerative braking means less disc and pad wear.

Does that make it more sensible to scrap ICE vehicles in favour of EVs? Only if there is significant recycling of materials and if the energy used is low emission itself. That last bit really is key. Effective recycling depends on low emission energy sources such as hydro, solar, tidal and wind (and to a lesser extent nuclear).

Way more so nuclear than solar & wind. The official future state reports from the IPCC actually call for a significant increase in, and development of, renewed nuclear. To a really significant degree.

 

[flowrider]

A zero emissions car does not exist, its a cunning ploy by environmentalists to ruin motoring enthusiasts lives and for the government to raise more money in taxation.

 

[rorywquin]

A zero emissions car does not exist, its a cunning ploy by environmentalists to ruin motoring enthusiasts lives and for the government to raise more money in taxation.

Except that the air in cities is a lot less polluted.......(by cars).

 

[Frontstep]

A zero emissions car does not exist, its a cunning ploy by environmentalists to ruin motoring enthusiasts lives and for the government to raise more money in taxation.

Yes it does I will draw you one.

Please don't sit on it and crease it, leave it out in the rain or leave it in the sun.

Other than that it will last you for years.

 

[Donald McPherson]

Dont know why the roof, bonnet and boot are not made with solar panels.

 

[LostKiwi]

A zero emissions car does not exist, its a cunning ploy by environmentalists to ruin motoring enthusiasts lives and for the government to raise more money in taxation.

I found one for BlobCat.....


No electrics at all...

 

[Oldspanners]

Listening to Gordon Murray he says the current batteries don't have the required power density to make a car light enough to be really viable, dragging around excess weight wears out brakes, tyres and causes more road damage. He reckons it will be 5-10 years before the next generation of lighter batteries are available and a supporting infrastructure is in place. Hydrogen cells he thinks is the way forward.

 

[Blobcat]

I found one for BlobCat.....
View attachment 61421

No electrics at all...

No it’s got silly wheels on it

 

[Blobcat]

Listening to Gordon Murray he says the current batteries don't have the required power density to make a car light enough to be really viable, dragging around excess weight wears out brakes, tyres and causes more road damage. He reckons it will be 5-10 years before the next generation of lighter batteries are available and a supporting infrastructure is in place. Hydrogen cells he thinks is the way forward.

Now he’s a man who knows what he is talking about. Met him at Goodwood FOS a couple of years ago, very nice bloke.

 

[Frontstep]

With the future heading inexorably towards zero emission and driverless cars the planners need to consider if they should dismantle car infrastructure in towns and cities.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Dont know why the roof, bonnet and boot are not made with solar panels.

They are in some cases. Trouble is, solar pv costs don’t scale downwards well.

 

[LostKiwi]

They are in some cases. Trouble is, solar pv costs don’t scale downwards well.

And the amount of energy generated by the surface area available leaves a massive shortfall against requirements.
It would take a week of sunshine to generate enough electricity to charge a current typical EV.

Pure solar powered vehicles have been made (the Honda Cockroach for example) but they are extremely stripped out purpose built vehicles.