Wild Goose Chase with Hydraulic Tappets?

[gre1591]

My trusty old C200, owned by me for 15 years now has run faultlessly but after its last service last autumn I noticed it didn’t start as easily as before and briefly ran rough for a 10 seconds or so .
l went to Australia for a couple of months over the really cold weather but on my return to the still cool UK mornings it ran really rough for up to five minutes as if it has three cylinders then it settles down and runs perfectly ok for the rest of the day.
The Mercedes Indy specialist dealer I have used for the last five years for servicing is 90 miles away and I knew by the time I got to him with it, it would be running perfect and difficult to diagnose the fault. Several phone calls to him never got returned as to his opinion on the matter so I decided to ask my local diagnostic service centre if they could check it out to see if it was an obvious fault like a spark plug.
They put a diagnostic computer on to the engine and said that there were no apparent faults but it was running rough due to the hydraulic tappet/s over pumping up the oil and allowing a valve to open wrong upsetting the smooth running. They suggested an engine oil flush and new oil stating that the oil put in last time may be too thick for the old oil ways and relatively high mileage.
Funny insofar as I noticed this slight change of temperament with the engine when the oil was last changed but it has got worse as the oil got thicker through winter but I can tell is now getting better and easier to start as the ambient temperature warms the oil up.
I am disbelieving of this being the answer really and having finally got hold of my Indy he seemed sceptical too!
The guy at the diagnostic centre has 30 years plus experience with all manner of cars but not specifically Mercedes and he is adamant that its 80 % chance of this being the problem.
Just wondered if any forum members have had experience with this type of problem on this type of C202 engine (or any engine) or am I going on a wild goose chase on this one.

 

[drdre78]

hi check wiring going to coils under inletmanifold.they usually arck together.

 

[star]

Never had a problem with tappets on this engine, is yours HFM or pfm, has it an air mass meter?

 

[Rory]

Certainly the fact that it's less pronounced now the weather is warming and that it goes away once the engine is warm would fit with a problem with oil viscosity.

Ford Zetec engines are very sensitive to oil thickness, but not heard of it on a Mercedes before - the handbook indicates they'll run with practically anything.

Perhaps you could take it to one of the fast fit places for a £25 oil change and at least you'd know then?

 

[gre1591]

Never had a problem with tappets on this engine, is yours HFM or pfm, has it an air mass meter?

I am not sure its 95 model WDB 202 020 2F 219351 build no if that means anything to you?.

I am struggling with the tappets theory.

 

[6pot]

My trusty old C200, owned by me for 15 years now has run faultlessly but after its last service last autumn I noticed it didn’t start as easily as before and briefly ran rough for a 10 seconds or so .
l went to Australia for a couple of months over the really cold weather but on my return to the still cool UK mornings it ran really rough for up to five minutes as if it has three cylinders then it settles down and runs perfectly ok for the rest of the day.
The Mercedes Indy specialist dealer I have used for the last five years for servicing is 90 miles away and I knew by the time I got to him with it, it would be running perfect and difficult to diagnose the fault. Several phone calls to him never got returned as to his opinion on the matter so I decided to ask my local diagnostic service centre if they could check it out to see if it was an obvious fault like a spark plug.
They put a diagnostic computer on to the engine and said that there were no apparent faults but it was running rough due to the hydraulic tappet/s over pumping up the oil and allowing a valve to open wrong upsetting the smooth running. They suggested an engine oil flush and new oil stating that the oil put in last time may be too thick for the old oil ways and relatively high mileage.
Funny insofar as I noticed this slight change of temperament with the engine when the oil was last changed but it has got worse as the oil got thicker through winter but I can tell is now getting better and easier to start as the ambient temperature warms the oil up.
I am disbelieving of this being the answer really and having finally got hold of my Indy he seemed sceptical too!
The guy at the diagnostic centre has 30 years plus experience with all manner of cars but not specifically Mercedes and he is adamant that its 80 % chance of this being the problem.
Just wondered if any forum members have had experience with this type of problem on this type of C202 engine (or any engine) or am I going on a wild goose chase on this one.

the only time ive heard tappets causing a problem (noise) is when they dont hold on to the oil and they are noisey on start up. Your garages diagnostic sounds a little off to me. But im sure one of the more technical people will be along shortly to clear it up.

 

[Rory]

the only time ive heard tappets causing a problem (noise) is when they dont hold on to the oil and they are noisey on start up.

I searched and saw similar comments in another thread, and that, on disassembly, it's hard to get the oil out of them.

I surmise from that that even if you do have an oil viscosity problem, then changing it might not help.

 

[turbopete]

in the unlikely event they drain completely, its possible it could misfire until they get properly refilled again, but for them to have got that bad, they would have been rattling really severely beforehand for a long time!id try an oil flush and fresh oil and filter. could be a bit of gunge blocking up an oilway that needs to be cleared

in a nutshell, its almost impossible

 

[carloss]

Over filled tappets (your having a laugh)

 

[gre1591]

I wish i was i just want it to run smoothly.

 

[roofless]

had the same fault on my 94 e220 & to fix 1 new fuse needed to allow the cold start to work tho in your case it could also be the temperature sensor on the front of the engine under the black plastic cover with a four pin plug? it tells the ecu the engine is cold allowing the correct settings to be made

 

[6pot]

this sounds alot more plausable^^^

 

[gre1591]

The plot thickens,

I recently also noticed I have had to add water to the radiator. I put this down to a minor weep from the thermostat housing getting slightly worse. That has been like that for two years taking maybe a cup full of water a month however for the last few days I have added loads of water.

The garage has now diagnosed the head gasket failure causing the misfire on start up due to water leaking into cylinder from the head and also the consumption of water going up in the radiator.

Water is evidently blowing past the radiator cap at high revs .The oil was clean on draining with no trace of water and the water in the radiator looks uncontaminated.

Anyone experienced similar or have any ideas as to if the head gasket is the problem with these symptoms?

 

[star]

Yes loads of times, when you stop the engine and leave for a while, the pressure in the cooling system pushes water into cylinder and when the engine starts next, it wets a plug causing a misfire until it drys out. Easy when you get all the info, double check by testing for hydro carbons in coolant.

 

[gre1591]

Well it looks like the old girls had it then.

Well it looks like the old girls had it then. I presume a cylinder head refit will be fairly expensive? Any guesses on approximate price? I think it would need resurfacing as well as gaskets.
Is there anything you can put in temporarily to get it away and keep it going for a couple of months? I seem to remember a ceramic mix or something does it work?
I bought this car new 15 years ago. It has given sterling service up to its 113000 miles with nothing other than servicing, tyres, brakes and a battery. Although it’s in mint condition with no rust I realised some time ago it was worth virtually nothing so I recently took advantage of the scrappage scheme about a month ago to order a new car. My new car is two or three months away so keeping the old girl going till then would have been nice but it’s looking unlikely. Perhaps she knows she is for the crusher! Sad really because this was such a nice trouble free car and I was feeling guilty about crushing her.

 

[gre1591]

Anyone tried this head gasket repair?

Noticed this steel seal any one tried it only need a temporary repair.




http://www.steelseal.co.uk/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=1

 

[turbopete]

Well it looks like the old girls had it then. I presume a cylinder head refit will be fairly expensive? Any guesses on approximate price? I think it would need resurfacing as well as gaskets.
Is there anything you can put in temporarily to get it away and keep it going for a couple of months? I seem to remember a ceramic mix or something does it work?
I bought this car new 15 years ago. It has given sterling service up to its 113000 miles with nothing other than servicing, tyres, brakes and a battery. Although it’s in mint condition with no rust I realised some time ago it was worth virtually nothing so I recently took advantage of the scrappage scheme about a month ago to order a new car. My new car is two or three months away so keeping the old girl going till then would have been nice but it’s looking unlikely. Perhaps she knows she is for the crusher! Sad really because this was such a nice trouble free car and I was feeling guilty about crushing her.

most dont get crushed straight away. many are broken for spares.

 

[gre1591]

Oh that’s good if they don’t crush em, The bodywork is totally original with no rust whatsoever on the doors wings boot and bonnet .Dealers cannot believe it hasn’t rusted like many they see. The interior is also exceptional with carpets having been covered from new.. The bits will do someone well for spares I am sure. Fixed up with the head gasket done it would probably do another 100k but after 15 years I am just ready for something a bit more modern.