Will these alloys fit?????

[David124T]

Hello All,
There is a 1988 124 estate being dismantled quite near to me. It is fitted with 15 hole alloys that are in pretty good condition. I would assume that they would bolt straight on to my 1993 220E estate but can anyone confirm this for me before I hand over the cash? (A set of five for less than the cost of a new wheel trim!)

The alloys have the following info on the rim:-
F148
7J x 15 H2
ET 25
KBA 41158
MELBER
MADE IN ITALY

Reading other posts on this subject suggests that the ET number is critical. The handbook for mine says that 7J x 15 H2 ET41 are the correct size.
What does the ET number mean?

Thanks

 

[television]

The ET number means the distance out or in from the face of the wheel hub face.

these wheels with ET 25 are not really usable on your car, S class have the same number as you, and some more suitible will come along. a diffence of 5 is about the max that you can use without having problems,

Malcolm

 

[David124T]

Thanks for the info Malcolm. That's a pity because they are such a bargain.
What problems would there be if they were fitted?

 

[television]

Thanks for the info Malcolm. That's a pity because they are such a bargain.
What problems would there be if they were fitted?

They would be inset to far, you could use spacers, but they have to be special MB.
http://www.gilracing.com/MercedesSpacers/index.html

I don't think that the are cheap.

Malcolm

 

[David124T]

Gulp! They are expensive!
A set from Euro Car Parts (£15.99 + vat) wouldn't do the same job?
(You may get the impression that I really want these wheels!)
I'm supposed to be collecting them later today. It will be a while before a set becomes available at this price again.

 

[David124T]

Hi Malcolm,
First, if my last reply yesterday seemed a bit flippant then I apologise. No offence was intended.
I went ahead and bought the wheels anyway. The logic being that if I can't get them to fit then I should at least recoup my 40 quid if I need to sell them.
I am still confused about whether they will fit or not though.
I did a bit of rough measuring when I got the wheels back home. The current wheels are 6.5J steel which according to the handbook have an ET49. I put a straight edge against the back rim of the spare and the distance from the backplate is about 142mm. On the alloys, the distance is about 128mm. Am I correct in assuming that there will be more clearance between the wheel and strut?
If so, then would a spacer still be needed? Won't the outer face be further out? (taking into account that the wheels are half an inch wider anyway).
If my maths is correct, then the outer face of these wheels will be 16mm further out than the recommended size alloy(41 less 25).
The handbook says the tyres should be 205/60. Do you think that they would foul the wheel arches? (The wheels don't have any tyres on them).

Thanks again

David

 

[television]

The lower the ET number, the closer they will be towards the strut.
Just for testing to see if they will clear, why not go down to your tyre shop and get a scrap tyre free, as they have to pay to dump them, and bolt it onto the car too see if it clears.

Re the spacer, MB wheels are hub consentric, the wheel centers on that little flange on the hub, and the bolts just keep them against the back plate.
if you use spacers without the flange on one side and the groove on the other you could get balance problems.

Malcolm

 

[Flying Scot]

The lower the ET number, the closer they will be towards the strut.
Just for testing to see if they will clear, why not go down to your tyre shop and get a scrap tyre free, as they have to pay to dump them, and bolt it onto the car too see if it clears.

Re the spacer, MB wheels are hub consentric, the wheel centers on that little flange on the hub, and the bolts just keep them against the back plate.
if you use spacers without the flange on one side and the groove on the other you could get balance problems.

Malcolm

more liable to get run out problems as the wheel might not be concentic to the hub oval wheels he he could make for an interesting ride IF they all are identically intune

 

[David124T]

I think that I have cracked this. Unfortunately, it poses a different question which I will leave to the end.
The gap between the current 6.5 steel and the strut is about 8mm. The gap between the 7j alloy and the strut is nearly 30mm.
It appears that the higher the ET number, the gap between the strut and the wheel lessens.
The offset looks to be calculated as follows:
Imagine a wheel sliced in half along the rim. For a 7" wheel, you would have two 3.5" wide pieces.
The offset (in mm) is the distance from this centre line to the rear of the wheel hub face.
So, the higher the ET, the further the wheel hub is from the wheel centre line and therefore the gap between wheel and strut lessens.
This web address http://www.1010tires.com/wheeloffsetcalculator.asp is where I got the info.
My new question is this.
If I fit this alloy wheel, assuming my maths is right, it will look as if a wheel slightly wider than 7.5" has been fitted to the car. Without tyres on the wheels, it is hard to imagine.
Does anyone know if wheels of this width (or wider) have been fitted to a 124
without body mods?
There does seem to be an application for this wheel because it is listed here:
http:/www.alloywheelsdirect.net/mrecedes_wheel_fitments.pdf
Any advice would be welcome.

David

 

[Flying Scot]

never mind hitting the body - you are going to seriously screw up your steering geometry with the wider wheel and the centre of that moving out an inch - more actually

30mm - 8mm = 22mm - then 6.5" being 162.5mm and 7" being 175mm

a difference of 12.5mm half that being 6.25mm

so you have the centre of the tread some (22 + 6.25) 28.25mm away from the designed position

or looking at it another way (the result is even worse) the position of std wheel centre from the datum point on the strut is 8mm + (162.5 /2) = 89.25mm

the centre of the new wheel is 30mm + (175 /2) = 110.75 mm

total difference 31.5mm

 

[David124T]

Hi David,
Yup, far too much. Luckily, the guy I bought them from will take them back for 25 quid. He has a couple of other people interested in them (providing they haven't been reading this post of course).
Out of interest, they came off a 1987 300TE. He says there wasn't any problems. Did earlier models have a narrower track or different suspension set-up? I can't think of any other explanation.
On the plus side, I know a bit more about wheels than I did four days ago!

Cheers

David

 

[television]

Hi David,
Yup, far too much. Luckily, the guy I bought them from will take them back for 25 quid. He has a couple of other people interested in them (providing they haven't been reading this post of course).
Out of interest, they came off a 1987 300TE. He says there wasn't any problems. Did earlier models have a narrower track or different suspension set-up? I can't think of any other explanation.
On the plus side, I know a bit more about wheels than I did four days ago!

Cheers

David

To my knowledge there is no difference on the set up of a pre or post 09 92 124.
I made the huge mistake on my 300TE back in 1990 and fitted some wide wheels, the car was never the same, but I did not know much about ET's in those days, it was something that no one talked about.

Malcolm

 

[David124T]

Malcolm, When you say "wide", do you mean wider than the official option? i.e. 7 inches.
I only want a standard set that were available at the time - 15 or 8 hole.

David

 

[television]

Malcolm, When you say "wide", do you mean wider than the official option? i.e. 7 inches.
I only want a standard set that were available at the time - 15 or 8 hole.

David

Yes I fitted 8 ins , I was only comenting, wide tyres wear out faster than narrow due to the scrubbing action.
Stick to the correct ET within 5, and as I said earlier S class are 41.wheels come up on Ebay all the time, there are also breakers.

malcolm

 

[Myros]

There is also me

I have a set of four 15 hole 15in 7J alloys, ET41, and some usable tyres which were on our 88 300TE when I bought it. I swapped them for a refurbed set I already had in the garage.

They are in average condition, and could do with a clean up and a lick of paint, but are guaranteed to fit your 124 no problem. One of the tyres has a slow puncture, but you would probably want to puts a matching set on them anyway, as they are odd tyres.(unmatched, not strange)

The whole lot's yours for £100, but for that price, you'll have to come up to Yorkshire to fetch them, or arrange shipping. That is considerably less than I paid for the ones I have on the car now, and they took me ages to bring up to spec. These probably won't want more than a sanding and a couple of of coats of silver and lacquer.

Let me know if you are interested.

 

[sankey]

better to try ebay,,£100 for a set of old tatty alloys is a bit steep..

 

[Myros]

They aren't tatty

just in need of TLC. No worse than ones you'll get on e-bay for that price.

 

[David124T]

Re: 15 Hole Alloys

Hi Myros,

Sorry I haven't replied earlier. Been away for a few days.
Thanks for the offer but I am going to pass on this occasion.

David