anti diesel idea not working.....

[Craiglxviii]

I know some people specialising in this...

That’s for ROSES not trees chap

 

[LostKiwi]

That’s for ROSES not trees chap

Nah she doesn't like the stuff....

 

[Frontstep]

Some trucks are very clean;

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-more-toxic-than-trucks-and-buses-data-shows

 

[C350Carl]

Some trucks are very clean;

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-more-toxic-than-trucks-and-buses-data-shows

As are some cars.

The problem is that older cars are nowhere near as polluting as older vans, trucks, ships etc. But they’re not being tackled anywhere near as strongly as the govt do with cars.

 

[davemercedes]

But regardless of any logic, the confusion caused to consumers is actively reducing the diesel vehicle parc (bear in mind that the only significant statement has been to the effect that UK will ban sales of diesel or petrol cars by 2040. This has been distorted so much that Joe Public is not happy about parting with his hard-earned to get a new one!

Auntie Beeb today says "Diesel car sales are set to fall this year and will account for just 15% of the UK market by 2025, down from a 50% peak, according to a new study."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42621112

 

[Frontstep]

The point is though its the usual me-edia storm whipped up by bored hacks, the study if you unearth the facts simply points out the blindingly obvious point that we will be buying lots of new electric cars in the future.

How is any government spokesperson supposed to give a statement to allay those whipped up fears.

 

[JohnArnoldBrown]

How about running cars on hot air?

 

[LostKiwi]

How about running cars on hot air?

We'd all have to go to Westminster for a decent fill up!

 

[Craiglxviii]

The point is though its the usual me-edia storm whipped up by bored hacks, the study if you unearth the facts simply points out the blindingly obvious point that we will be buying lots of new electric cars in the future.

How is any government spokesperson supposed to give a statement to allay those whipped up fears.

The point though is that it isn’t quite so blindingly obvious. There is a finite supply of lithium on this planet- it is only given off during stellar formation, so (current theory AIUI) it is concentrated on the inner planets, which means any source other than Terrestrial is really not get-at-able. That in turn restricts the availability of batteries using current technology.

In addition we are discovering new sources of oil all the time. Oils shales and sands, fracking and new surveys are uncovering more and more. It’s literally being found quicker than we’re using it. There’s a theory that Siberia harbours a series of Emperor fields (the largest type, each surrounded by smaller king, queen and duke fields) that have yet to be discovered that’s been discredited for years and now recently re- credited. So the sustainability for IC- powered cars is pretty well demonstrated.

Right now the driving force, if you’ll pardon the pun, behind zero emissions cars is the Green lobby. That has gained huge meeja traction and so visibility in the public consciousness (scuse extra pun) but the fact and data behind it- as in, overall environmental impact of on EVs the other- is still seriously shrouded in mysteries, riddles and enigmae.

 

[LostKiwi]

Lithium is not rare though Craig, even if it is finite.
Its the 26th most abundant element in the Universe and present in many places on earth - even in brine.
Advances in battery technology using Graphene products are rapidly improving density and reducing charge times as well. Even the humble lead acid cell is being looked at again with Silicon looking like it will give double the current, double the energy density and 2-5x the battery life and is 100% recyclable.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Lithium is not rare though Craig, even if it is finite.
Its the 26th most abundant element in the Universe and present in many places on earth - even in brine.
Advances in battery technology using Graphene products are rapidly improving density and reducing charge times as well. Even the humble lead acid cell is being looked at again with Silicon looking like it will give double the current, double the energy density and 2-5x the battery life and is 100% recyclable.

It’s not rare, yet. Current global reserves are estimated at around 15 million tons. The issue isn’t that there’s not so much of it, it’s that it’s irrecoverable when the battery is recycled at end of life. So it’s a dead loss- fuel, in a way. Assuming a car battery uses 5kg, we can get at 3 million car batteries. Sounds a lot but it isn’t. The Big 5 build around 10 million cars per year. So, I strongly suspect that Li-on tech will be restricted to much smaller applications. Unless the economic extraction of it from seawater can be made competitive in the face of oil.

Graphene development is also really interesting... but everything really comes back to, can it be made economically viable in the face of oil?

Right now, and for the foreseeable future, it can’t.

 

[LostKiwi]

The issue isn’t that there’s not so much of it, it’s that it’s irrecoverable when the battery is recycled at end of life.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/414707/lithium-battery-recycling-gets-a-boost/

 

[Frontstep]

It is right the green lobby are getting the traction in that place we can't mention, that does though leave a hungry aspirational world looking for energy outside of the zone.
I do think we/they will be driving predominately electric cars in that place we can't mention, despite the likely-hood that electricity prices will be ever dearer, there aren't enough charging points (many don't work), prices for charging are often barmy, who would want to "electrify" the highlands, rural wales, or simply areas with vandalism problems.
The politicians will bring in a punitive tax regime to force us.

Increasing supplies of a fuel that's not PC didn't stop our humongous coal reserves being mothballed.
I have just bought a nearly new diesel for the youth and heaven forfend a VW at that and many of the sales from the dealership are still diesel.
The high price of electric vehicles is the number one reason by far the sales manager told me for slow sales,
Range is the next.
We will have a mix for ten years at least.

 

[davemercedes]

The point is though its the usual me-edia storm whipped up by bored hacks, the study if you unearth the facts simply points out the blindingly obvious point that we will be buying lots of new electric cars in the future.

How is any government spokesperson supposed to give a statement to allay those whipped up fears.

The facts are irrelevant - as I said earlier, Joe Public is so confused that he is not going to part with his money so the forecast per the Beeb page is probably accurate and diesel vehicles "will probably account for just 15% of the UK market by 2025".

For a statement to allay the fears of the electorate, Mrs Mayhem made a half-comment about helping diesel owners who had been misguided and lied to by one and all and then she did - nothing. She could and probably should have delegated that task to the Minister of Transport - he has overall responsibility for the policies of the Department for Transport and the government have a "duty of care" towards this huge industry - especially if they want to keep raking in the taxes generated.

 

[Frontstep]

Pray tell us what Ms May or indeed any Government Minister could or should say ?

Specifics please..........

 

[LostKiwi]

Pray tell us what Ms May or indeed any Government Minister could or should say ?

Specifics please..........

I resign?

 

[davemercedes]

↑ That’s the best idea!

A statement 1) confirming that the public had been misled and 2) stating that as a result they would a look at a scrappage scheme might reassure some with older vehicles. They should also expand on the bald statement (that they made) about no IC engine cars by 2040 – and clarify that they will continue to be available for another 22 years. They should also give a formal undertaking not to slap extra taxes on diesel vehicles but rather to apply lower taxes to “cleaner” cars. Not rocket science really.

 

[LostKiwi]

They should also give a formal undertaking not to slap extra taxes on diesel vehicles but rather to apply lower taxes to “cleaner” cars.

And miss out on the chance to clatter the easy target motorist some more. Can't see that ever happening.

 

[davemercedes]

But they should - their statement caused the reaction which is clobbering the industry's income and therefore taxes.
- But they're too thick to see that.

In any case, they'll find plenty of other ways to pick our pockets!

 

[Headhurts]

When I purchased my car in 2016 I believed it was the right thing to do for my circumstances.

It’s an E350 EU6 rated car.

I travel to France around twice a year and have around 3 holidays in the UK we normally go for a forest lodge.

I genuinely could not do these trips with an electric car as they are at the moment.

I cannot see it being viable for a few years yet.

Electric cars though are I suppose great for shortish trips where if needed there is access to some way of charging them should the need arise.

Robin


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