Anyone want a Hilary or Donald 3

[Yugguy]

I hope both have strong advisors.

 

[Naraic]

I saw an interesting documentary on TVs, where Michael Miles was saying that many Trump 'supporters' are just angry working class people, who deep down know he's an idiot, but just want to send a massive F. U. Message to Capitol Hill, as they feel abandoned.

Indeed, he compared it with the Brexit vote.

A good feeling for a day, a week even a month but then...oh dear. The point being if the referendum was run today it probably would go the other way. Let's hope the US does not make the same mistake.

 

[Yugguy]

Perhaps the ivory towered politicos should start listening to their people then it wouldn't get this far.

 

[prwales]

I saw an interesting documentary on TVs, where Michael Miles was saying that many Trump 'supporters' are just angry working class people, who deep down know he's an idiot, but just want to send a massive F. U. Message to Capitol Hill, as they feel abandoned.

the corollary here is UKIP

 

[Yugguy]

Yeah I think we got that...

 

[Frontstep]

I saw an interesting documentary on TVs, where Michael Miles was saying that many Trump 'supporters' are just angry working class people, who deep down know he's an idiot, but just want to send a massive F. U. Message to Capitol Hill, as they feel abandoned.

Michael "Moore" has a long history of satirical documentary making books acting etc and sits on the Democrats side of politics.

His documentaries are excellent.

His description of Brexit voters as regretting their decision because some remainers got a petition going showed a distinct misunderstanding.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Ok.

So Clinton is a good choice. Hawkish. She's calling for a No Fly zone over Aleppo. All great stuff there.

That's great stuff that has the very significant potential to start a shooting war with Russia, who have made it clear they will brook no American involvement.

This is the Clinton who was at the centre of the "we can't take your arms away, but we can make it impossible for you to fight" movement in the Senate to the JCS back in '93.

In terms of being likely to start a war, well there is a real genuine one going on off the coast of North Africa right now. USS MASON almost took an antiship missile or 3 over the last couple of weeks. The Rules of Engagement in place required her two wait two days before returning fire- those RoE coming from the current administration. I've mentioned before how important credibility is to a deterrent; right now Clinton (and Obama, but not Trump) has zero credibility internationally, so any hard line actions she takes run the significant risk of her bluff being called and flags being draped over many coffins.

 

[davemercedes]

Michael "Moore" has a long history of satirical documentary making books acting etc and sits on the Democrats side of politics.

His documentaries are excellent.

His description of Brexit voters as regretting their decision because some remainers got a petition going showed a distinct misunderstanding.

The petition was started by a leaver William Oliver Healey, an English Democrat activist. He set up the petition because he thought they wouldn't win.

But when the criteria of that petition was met (i.e.: "remain or leave vote is less than 60%, based a turnout of less than 75%"), leavers all cried "foul" and blamed remainers for starting it! It's a funny old game.

 

[prwales]

Yeah I think we got that...

I was having a Kevin Keegan moment

 

[davemercedes]

Interesting to see that it's not just us who have silly laws (or at least laws that can be interpreted in a silly way):

Clinton emails: FBI chief may have broken law, says top Democrat
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37819311

It says: Harry Reid accused FBI director James Comey of violating an act which bars officials from influencing an election.
- So if a candidate turned a machine gun on a crowd and killed 50 people, it would be illegal to arrest/charge them.
- Then on election, the POTUS could pardon him/herself! I love it!

 

[Craiglxviii]

Perhaps the ivory towered politicos should start listening to their people then it wouldn't get this far.

That is exactly the problem on both sides of the Atlantic, the politicos have had 50-60 years of entrenching their positions to make their fortunes, their families' fortunes and establish long-term power bases & dynasties at the expense of obeying the general mood of the electorate beyond panem at circenses. The furore over Brexit and the really, totally unprecedented fiasco that is the current Presidential Election are two manifestations of this from slightly different angles.

 

[Craiglxviii]

There has been more direct intervention in an election than the FBI just reopening an investigation:


http://iotwreport.com/trump-running-aga ... orruption/

(funny how its only bad whern it's against the Clintons, eh...?)

Flashback: Bill Clinton cheered 11th hour indictment that doomed Bush re-election
By Paul Bedard (@SecretsBedard) • 10/30/16 8:16 AM

Whispers of "payback" are being directed at Hillary Clinton after she decried as "unprecedented" the surprise FBI revival of its probe of her email scandal.
That's because 24 years ago, as former President George H.W. Bush was surging back against challenger Bill Clinton, a special prosecutor raised new charges against Bush in the Iran-Contra probe, prompting Clinton to claim he was running against a "culture of corruption."
Many Republicans claimed that the indictment made by special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh against former Reagan-era Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger the weekend before the 1992 election cost Bush a second term. The indictment, later thrown out, challenged Bush's claim that he did not know about a controversial arms-for-hostages deal that dogged the Reagan-Bush administration.

When it came, Clinton seized on it, saying for example, "Secretary Weinberger's note clearly shows that President Bush has not been telling the truth when he says he was out of the loop." Clinton added, "It demonstrates that President Bush knew and approved of President Reagan's secret deal to swap arms for hostages."
Powerline blogger Paul Mirengoff wrote, "What goes around comes around."

He concluded:

The Clintons seized on the new indictment, howling about a "culture of corruption" that supposedly pervaded the administration. Bush's poll numbers declined and Bill Clinton won the election.

Shortly after the election, a federal judge threw out the new indictment because it violated the five-year statute of limitations and improperly broadened the original charges. President Bush then pardoned Weinberger.

 

[Frontstep]

You just know that both sides are digging furiously for dirt, the none of the above tick box looks attractive.

Still I go for the purgative Trump, the quite literally sickening and divisive alternative to the continuation of the political miasma that pervades American politics.

 

[PovertySpec]

America deserves a Trump. Shame it actually has to be Trump but something has got to give.

 

[Craiglxviii]

You just know that both sides are digging furiously for dirt, the none of the above tick box looks attractive.

Still I go for the purgative Trump, the quite literally sickening and divisive alternative to the continuation of the political miasma that pervades American politics.

Oh yes, they are indeed. What is interesting here is that Trump has his own party and thus the GOP supporters divided, half of them ("half") are looking for dirt on him as well as the Clinton campaign is. And stepping into all of this with his size 9's is the same FBI Director who cleared Clinton (effectively) of charges that could have led to a trial for Treason, launching an enormous spanner in the works for her campaign... and yet he was in receipt of the thick end of $1m from her Foundation... so who gave him the OK? This, from the blog of one analyst:

We are not looking at something else:
The whole McCabe-gate - that high-ranking FBI guy whose wife was running for office. A high-ranking guy who was the one who reported to Comey about it.

About the time the scandal breaks - maybe days after, suddenly Terry McAuliffe arranges for Mrs. McCabe to get $500K+ in her campaign coffers for her political run.

And it turns out Comey went against Lynch's directive when he sent the letter.

McCabe got the payoff, and recommended to Comey not to ask for criminal charges, something that Lynch was probably hinting he shouldn't ask for either. Comey trusted McCabe, faced a near-revolt from the rank-and-file agents. Comey then finds out about that arrangement via the reporting on Wikileaks - and then the Weinergate investigators drop the bomb.

The only way Comey crosses Lynch like that with the type of "f*** you" that would get him fired (or worse) is if he feels there was something to be gained... like direction from 1600

Some more, interesting and rather disturbing data here: https://twitter.com/LarrySchweikart

None of the Above would be my choice if we were in normal times, but it seems we live in "interesting" times.

Btw it looks very strongly like the move by Comey was presaged by an existing near-mutiny of the FBI rank and file over the handling of "emailgate", as in multiple threats by investigating agents that they would break stories of how much leeway was given to Clinton during that investigation unless news about this sexting-scandal was released.

Analysts have been saying for the last month that there is something strange going on with the DNC campaign, the way it was acting was almost as if they had sight of some horrendously scary internal polling data. Based on the actual polling data now released, OH, FL, and NC are gone for Hillary. She doesn't have the enthusiasm Obama had, and this only widens that gap. MI absentee returns also look strong for Trump as well.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Here is something that might help with to put things into perspective...

An awesome comment, so good i had to copy and paste it.

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton walk in to a bar.
Donald leans over, and with a smile on his face, says,
"The media is really tearing you apart for that Scandal."
Hillary: "You mean my lying about Benghazi?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the massive voter fraud?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the military not getting their votes counted?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Using my secret private server with classified material to Hide my Activities?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The NSA monitoring our phone calls, emails and everything Else?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Using the Clinton Foundation as a cover for tax evasion, Hiring Cronies, And taking bribes from foreign countries?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the drones being operated in our own country without The Benefit of the law?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Giving 123 Technologies $300 Million, and right afterward it Declared Bankruptcy and was sold to the Chinese?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean arming the Muslim Brotherhood and hiring them in the White House?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Whitewater, Watergate committee, Vince Foster, commodity Deals?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Turning Libya into chaos?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Being the mastermind of the so-called “Arab Spring” that only brought chaos, death and destruction to the Middle East and North Africa?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Leaving four Americans to die in Benghazi?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Trashing Mubarak, one of our few Muslim friends?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "The funding and arming of terrorists in Syria, the destruction and destabilization of that nation, giving the order to our lapdogs in Turkey and Saudi Arabia to give sarin gas to the "moderate" terrorists in Syria that they eventually used on civilians, and framed Assad, and had it not been for the Russians and Putin, we would have used that as a pretext to invade Syria, put a puppet in power, steal their natural resources, and leave that country in total chaos, just like we did with Libya?
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "The creation of the biggest refugees crisis since WWII?"
Trump: "No the other one:"
Hillary: "Leaving Iraq in chaos? "
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The DOJ spying on the press?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean HHS Secretary Sibelius shaking down health insurance Executives?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Giving our cronies in SOLYNDRA $500 MILLION DOLLARS and 3 Months Later they declared bankruptcy and then the Chinese bought it?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The NSA monitoring citizens' ?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The State Department interfering with an Inspector General Investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Me, The IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Threats to all of Bill's former mistresses to keep them quiet?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean the INSIDER TRADING of the Tyson chicken deal I did where I invested $1,000 and the next year I got $100,000?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean when Bill met with Attorney General, Loretta Lynch, just before my hearing with the FBI to cut a deal?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: " You mean the one where my IT guy at Platte River Networks asked Reddit for help to alter emails?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean where the former Haitian Senate President accused me and my foundation of asking him for bribes?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean that old video of me laughing as I explain how I got the charges against that child rapist dropped by blaming the young girl for liking older men and fantasizing about them. Even though I knew the guy was guilty?
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean that video of me coughing up a giant green lunger into my drinking glass then drinking it back down?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean that video of me passing out on the curb and losing my shoe?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean when I robbed Bernie Sanders of the Democratic Party Nomination by having the DNC rig the nomination process so that I would win?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "You mean how so many people that oppose me have died in mysterious was?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "Travel Gate? When seven employees of the White House Travel Office were fired so that friends of Bill and mine could take over the travel business? And when I lied under oath during the investigation by the FBI, the Department of Justice, the White House itself, the General Accounting Office, the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee, and the Whitewater Independent Counsel?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "The scandal where, (while I was Secretary if State), the State Department signed off on a deal to sell 20% of the USA's uranium to a Canadian corporation that the Russians bought, netting a $145 million donation from Russia to the Clinton Foundation and a $500,000 speaking gig for Bill from the Russian Investment Bank that set up the corporate buyout?. That scandal?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "That time I lied when I said I was under sniper fire when I got off the plane in Bosnia?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "That time when after I became the First Lady, I improperly requested a bunch of FBI files so I could look for blackmail material on government insiders?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "That time when Bill nominated Zoe Baird as Attorney General, even though we knew she hired illegal immigrants and didn't pay payroll taxes on them?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "When I got Nigeria exempted from foreign aid transparency guidelines despite evidence of corruption because they gave Bill a $700,000 in speaking fees?"
Trump" "No, the other one."
Hillary: "That time in 2009 when Honduran military forces allied with rightist lawmakers ousted democratically elected President Manuel Zelaya, and I as then-Secretary of State sided with the armed forces and fought global pressure to reinstate him?"
Trump: "No, the other one."
Hillary: "I give up! ... Oh wait, I think I've got it! When I stole the White House furniture, silverware, when Bill left Office?"
Trump: "THAT'S IT! I almost forgot about that one".

Even if only half of these.. no a quarter of these are true, Hilary is an absolute criminal in all senses of the word.

 

[prwales]

the real tragedy is that Bernie Sanders would have made a very different and radical President.

 

[PovertySpec]

the real tragedy is that Bernie Sanders would have made a very different and radical President.

That's why the American voters [STRIKE]couldn't[/STRIKE] were not allowed have him on the ballot paper.

To misquote Galloway, Clinton and Trump are two cheeks of the same backside.

 

[Craiglxviii]

the real tragedy is that Bernie Sanders would have made a very different and radical President.

And probably "not a bad one" either. There have been many POTUS' who have been worse I'd reckon. Unfortunately, voter fraud by the Clinton criminal machine got him out of the way.

 

[Craiglxviii]

That's why the American voters [STRIKE]couldn't[/STRIKE] were not allowed have him on the ballot paper.

To misquote Galloway, Clinton and Trump are two cheeks of the same backside.

The only problem with that analogy is that by choosing to wipe one cheek, the paper won't immediately tear but you'll still be left with a sh1tty mess for many years to come; by choosing to wipe the other, you may get a messy hand in the short term but at least you'll be clean afterwards.

Trump the Purgative, remember. It's a good analogy (see what I did there, the first 4 letters, eye thang yewww...)