Anyone want a Hilary or Donald 3

[Frontstep]

13.5% immigrant population but only 11.9% immigrant prison population.
Please try and explain the problem in that?

I'm genuinely intrigued.

I forgot to mention how you avoided addressing the majority of my post it made my point in spades.

 

[LostKiwi]

I forgot to mention how you avoided addressing the majority of my post it made my point in spades.

In what way? The rest of your post was irrelevant quasi-xenophobic rant.
Interesting you consistently fail to respond to the points I make (such as the one kindly requoted).
You also consistently fail to provide links.
Maybe your elephant guns loaded with blanks....

 

[Frontstep]

My Post;

Trying to spin away the problem is at the heart of the discontent that sweeps the world and allows divisive figures like Trump, Le Pen,Wilders etc to prosper.

Americas border with Mexico has a lot of problems persistently trying to deny it has helped no one except Trump to be elected.

Sweden has problems with its migrants populations as do many other countries including the UK.

Britain is leaving what could have been a good EU mainly because obvious problems were not addressed.

We have now reached a stage with migrant fatigue where genuine refugees are lumped in with economic migrants coming for their black friday "Asda Television "


So highlighting the problem is now Quasi- xenophobic much better to keep your head buried in the sand I suppose and then complain when we leave the EU or elect a Trump oh hang on that didn't work did it

Perhaps a Wilders or Le Pen might wake our sleep walkers up.

 

[Craiglxviii]

To calm things down a little bit gents...

Maybe a discussion of why the EU as a concept is failing migh be in order.

Your thoughts?

Mine are that the original concept was fine and perfectly sound (customs union), but the remit consistently increased way beyond its own ability to control. Once the EU Council found itself in control of a monolithic power bloc in its own right, that bloc started acting in its own elf-interests as explicitly distinct and different from those of both the member states, and the will of the populations of those member states.

 

[LostKiwi]

To calm things down a little bit gents...

Maybe a discussion of why the EU as a concept is failing migh be in order.

Your thoughts?

Mine are that the original concept was fine and perfectly sound (customs union), but the remit consistently increased way beyond its own ability to control. Once the EU Council found itself in control of a monolithic power bloc in its own right, that bloc started acting in its own elf-interests as explicitly distinct and different from those of both the member states, and the will of the populations of those member states.

Would that not be for the brexit thread?

 

[LostKiwi]

My Post;

Trying to spin away the problem is at the heart of the discontent that sweeps the world and allows divisive figures like Trump, Le Pen,Wilders etc to prosper.

Americas border with Mexico has a lot of problems persistently trying to deny it has helped no one except Trump to be elected.

Sweden has problems with its migrants populations as do many other countries including the UK.

Britain is leaving what could have been a good EU mainly because obvious problems were not addressed.

We have now reached a stage with migrant fatigue where genuine refugees are lumped in with economic migrants coming for their black friday "Asda Television "


So highlighting the problem is now Quasi- xenophobic much better to keep your head buried in the sand I suppose and then complain when we leave the EU or elect a Trump oh hang on that didn't work did it

Perhaps a Wilders or Le Pen might wake our sleep walkers up.

As part of the support for your statements you used statistics (not linked so others can verify). I queried the statistics (the only 'facts' - even if unverifiable by link - in your post). You conveniently ignored the relevance of the statistics I presented and again raised your own opinions (which I neither challenged nor acknowledged as frankly they didn't interest me).

So... what exactly is your take on the challenge to your 'facts' (the only bit of your post I challenged).

 

[Craiglxviii]

Would that not be for the brexit thread?

Perhaps, it's interesting how discussion threads ebb and flow, merge and diverge... the point was about migration, refugees and open borders; the EU figures pretty heavily in all of that so as a discussion topic here it's valid

 

[Frontstep]

As part of the support for your statements you used statistics (not linked so others can verify). I queried the statistics (the only 'facts' - even if unverifiable by link - in your post). You conveniently ignored the relevance of the statistics I presented and again raised your own opinions (which I neither challenged nor acknowledged as frankly they didn't interest me).

So... what exactly is your take on the challenge to your 'facts' (the only bit of your post I challenged).

Heres a link for you from the rabid right wing xenophobic Independent newspaper supporting my 13,000 awaiting deportation.

Clearly they have published it to whip up xenophobic feelings

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ls-awaiting-deportation-from-uk-a7063026.html

 

[LostKiwi]

Heres a link for you from the rabid right wing xenophobic Independent newspaper supporting my 13,000 awaiting deportation.

Clearly they have published it to whip up xenophobic feelings

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ls-awaiting-deportation-from-uk-a7063026.html

Clearly your xenophobia is getting worse and affecting your powers of reasoning. That wasn't the post referred to that you pulled me up on. It was this one:

That isn't the case at all these reports are not of historical attacks where the victim is emboldened by others coming forward.

The Swedish Police officers reports are far more compelling if they were wrong then it would have been simple to unravel his story.

30.9% of Swedish Prisoners by number are foreign nationals Germany is at 27.1% ours is bad enough at 11.9%.

http://www.prisonstudies.org/country/sweden

It is time to address the elephant in the room.

Immigration is positively good when controlled but bad when not.

Trumps often derided comments about Mexico and its criminals effects is repeated in Europe and we need to address it before we get a Purgative leader here.

The bit in bold was what I responded to. Your link gave figures for Sweden but you mentioned the UK.

Now....
If you can just clear the xenophobic red mist from your mind for a minute and concentrate of the correct post you might actually get on the right subject.

But really it doesn't matter. Gizze managed to figure it out and do it for you.

As far as your opinions go they are yours and not shared by me. You are of course completely justified (as is everyone) to think what you like but if I choose not to comment on them its because I'm not interested in them. It doesn't mean I agree with them or even necessarily disagree (though in this instance I do). It just means I see no point in commenting so didn't.

Oh damn. I just did. Never mind - I'm sure I'll get over it.

 

[Frontstep]

So to sum it up I am a Xenophobe because I point out the problems with supporting numbers.

You do realise logic is missing with your thinking surely.

It does kind of limits discussion of problems doesn't it ?

I am going to the GP's later I will avoid discussing the reason for my visit and see if it goes away, she might think I'm a bit odd but I could just sing

 

[LostKiwi]

So to sum it up I am a Xenophobe because I point out the problems with supporting numbers.

You do realise logic is missing with your thinking surely.

It does kind of limits discussion of problems doesn't it ?

I am going to the GP's later I will avoid discussing the reason for my visit and see if it goes away, she might think I'm a bit odd but I could just sing

OK I'm kind of bored with this now but lets try one last time to see if you can understand.

You posted this:

That isn't the case at all these reports are not of historical attacks where the victim is emboldened by others coming forward.

The Swedish Police officers reports are far more compelling if they were wrong then it would have been simple to unravel his story.

30.9% of Swedish Prisoners by number are foreign nationals Germany is at 27.1% ours is bad enough at 11.9%.

http://www.prisonstudies.org/country/sweden

It is time to address the elephant in the room.

Immigration is positively good when controlled but bad when not.

Trumps often derided comments about Mexico and its criminals effects is repeated in Europe and we need to address it before we get a Purgative leader here.

I replied (and quoted the bit in your original post I marked in bold):

13.5% of the population of the UK are foreign nationals.
11.9% of the prison population are foreign nationals.

Seems to me the foreigners are better behaved than the locals!!!

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/

You then ignored my post and replied with this:

We have 13,000 foreign prisoners awaiting deportation in the minds of the Home Office

6,000 of them are allowed to live in the community according to bigoted Home Office Official statistics.

Top three EU Polish Irish and Romanian.

Still the "Home Affairs Select Committee said that "clear inefficiencies" in the process of sending foreign national offenders (FNOs) back to fellow EU member states would lead people to "question the point of the UK remaining a member of the EU".


No every thing is fine, and if it wasn't for people like me pointing at the herd of elephants in the room clearly we wouldn't have a problem


No wonder America voted for the purgative, some of them must have taken their heads out of the sand and found the polling stations

Totally irrelevant to what I asked and was genuinely interested in.

You then replied (2 pages after my original question which now bores me as Gizze came up with a plausible reply which whilst I'm not entirely satisfied with can't be bothered to delve deeper):

13.5% of the population of the UK are foreign nationals.
11.9% of the prison population are foreign nationals.

Seems to me the foreigners are better behaved than the locals!!!

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/

I forgot to mention how you avoided addressing the majority of my post it made my point in spades.

So again you sidestep the question I raised and claim my not responding to your opinions makes your point??? Seriously???

Anyway - I hope your visit to the doctor goes well and they can fix whatever your malady is.

 

[prwales]

come on guys b4 big brother gives you both a time out

 

[LostKiwi]

come on guys b4 big brother gives you both a time out

Its OK - I'm done with it now.

 

[M80]

The high percentage of immigrant criminality in Sweden, Germany or anywhere else is shocking. But aside from perhaps serving as a warning to us it doesn't really matter to us.
These countries have their problems and no doubt their individual ways of attempting to deal with them.
On the basis that prevention is better than cure I can see lessons for us due to witnessing their problems.

Based on the proportion of our immigrant population the criminal proportion looks pretty well balanced, rather than they being better behaved than the locals. And that ignores that finding and prosecuting these visitors, or guests, might be more difficult.

When I hear of Brits taking their culture abroad, it being football violence, or just plain Costa Del Sol type hooliganism it disgusts me. As a guest in a foreign land I view there is a responsibility to show respect and, even if the locals are naughty, refrain from rising up to it. So if we have immigrants behaving criminally here I find it harder to accept than if it were a Brit.

 

[Frontstep]

The high percentage of immigrant criminality in Sweden, Germany or anywhere else is shocking. But aside from perhaps serving as a warning to us it doesn't really matter to us.
These countries have their problems and no doubt their individual ways of attempting to deal with them.
On the basis that prevention is better than cure I can see lessons for us due to witnessing their problems.

Based on the proportion of our immigrant population the criminal proportion looks pretty well balanced, rather than they being better behaved than the locals. And that ignores that finding and prosecuting these visitors, or guests, might be more difficult.

When I hear of Brits taking their culture abroad, it being football violence, or just plain Costa Del Sol type hooliganism it disgusts me. As a guest in a foreign land I view there is a responsibility to show respect and, even if the locals are naughty, refrain from rising up to it. So if we have immigrants behaving criminally here I find it harder to accept than if it were a Brit.

Thats my point it should serve as a warning to us, high levels of uncontrolled immigration are demonstrably bad and a drain on the state ie us.

Left to fester we get the outcomes we have seen lately Brexit, Trump and whatevers next.


We are at 11.9% with criminals
http://www.prisonstudies.org/country/united-kingdom-england-wales

which when you consider the amount that simply disappear before trial is the tip of the iceberg, and remember these are guests behaving badly lets not keep ignoring the problem or we will soon be at Swedens shocking levels.


Such is the problem the Immigration Act 2016 is to tag people as the numbers are not controllable at the moment.

Then there's housing demand,schools and other public provision from law abiding migrants.


Your average economic migrant doesn't stay long enough to make a worthwhile contribution to the nations coffers before they return.

The answer is to open up migration to the world based on our real needs not Starbucks or Amazon, Sports Direct Warehouses.