brexit free for all to continue

[bembo449]

I see breaking news bbc website that any EU citizen will be able to do as they like after Brexit so we will continue to see our benefit system plundered aswell as the NHS etc , don't know why i bothered voting in the referendum ?

 

[geraldrobins]

I see breaking news bbc website that any EU citizen will be able to do as they like after Brexit so we will continue to see our benefit system plundered aswell as the NHS etc , don't know why i bothered voting in the referendum ?

I think it refers to EU citizens already living here not all EU citizens.
And according to some of our members if its on the BBC website its all lies.

 

[Craiglxviii]

No. That is just what the Lords have put on it. MPs can remove those changes and repropose.

I would suggest that if the Lords insisted on these changes they'd be shooting themselves through their own spinal cord. Terminal suicideitis.

 

[dry run]

What I can't understand is why doesn't the government just say "We will guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK on the proviso that the EU recipricates" seems simple enough!

 

[LostKiwi]

What I can't understand is why doesn't the government just say "We will guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK on the proviso that the EU recipricates" seems simple enough!

Totally agree. Storm in a teacup springs to mind.

 

[Frontstep]

That's what the Lords have just opposed it is the Governments position.

 

[davemercedes]

What I can't understand is why doesn't the government just say "We will guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK on the proviso that the EU recipricates" seems simple enough!

alleluiah!

That's far too simple though - and it's not part of the non-existent 'plan' under which we will take what we are given and if we don't like it we're going to walk away!

 

[Frontstep]

alleluiah!

That's far too simple though - and it's not part of the non-existent 'plan' under which we will take what we are given and if we don't like it we're going to walk away!

Oh good so you condemn the Lords vote then ?

 

[prwales]

What I can't understand is why doesn't the government just say "We will guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK on the proviso that the EU recipricates" seems simple enough!

I might be wrong but I get the distinct impression that most British EU residents have retired, own their homes and receive pensions sent from the UK, the only real burden they represent is if they become ill and depend on the E111 reciprocal arrangements. We have 3 million EU citizens living here the majority of whom are in work, albeit relatively low paid, zero hours work some are able to claim in-work benefits for families left at home.
The group within that 3 million who raise the most hackles are the Roma, they tend to have large families and very different customs, they are also very poorly educated and have few skills. They are estimated at 150-300k in number mostly from Slovakia, and Romania. In their home countries they face extreme discrimination, poverty, and exclusion from mainstream life.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...nsecure-after-vote-to-leave-eu-thinktank-says

 

[LostKiwi]

Breakdown of foreign nationals here:
http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/

Romanians account for about 140k. The largest group by far (looking at citizenship as opposed to birth) are Polish.

UK expats in teh EU are listed here:
https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/

Some interesting stats here too:
http://metrocosm.com/eu-diaspora-map/

 

[prwales]

I don't see the Poles as a problem they integrated in their hundreds of thousands during and after WW2, they mix and intermarry with us, their drinking culture means they fit in well with our working class communities too.
Integration is key, unfortunately our Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Roma seek to establish their own distinct communities, perhaps driven by insecurity, but also due to shared values, shared religion and language. This does not apply to the East African Asians who left Uganda, they did not put themselves in ghettos and are fully integrated. I think the answer is one of class, the Bangladeshi, Pakistanis and Roma we have are essentially peasants with a tribal outlook and culture; whereas the Ugandan asians were business people, entrepreneurs, with all that entails

 

[LostKiwi]

This is interesting:
"Under a principle enshrined by the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969, withdrawal from a treaty releases the parties from any future obligations to each other but does not affect any rights or obligations acquired under it before withdrawal. This is backed up by research conducted by the House of Commons Library"

Source https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/354

Now if the government just acknowledged this problem solved.

More interesting information on immigration from the UN here:
http://www.un.org/en/development/de..._MigrantStockByOriginAndDestination_2015.xlsx

 

[JBell]

I don't see the Poles as a problem they integrated in their hundreds of thousands during and after WW2, they mix and intermarry with us, their drinking culture means they fit in well with our working class communities too.

Down here they integrate into all classes in out community

 

[Naraic]

So...is now the time to buy a house in France?

 

[LostKiwi]

So...is now the time to buy a house in France?

Trouble maker

 

[dry run]

So...is now the time to buy a house in France?

You mean you don't already have one?

 

[Naraic]

You mean you don't already have one?

Not in France.

 

[Frontstep]

I don't see the Poles as a problem they integrated in their hundreds of thousands during and after WW2, they mix and intermarry with us, their drinking culture means they fit in well with our working class communities too.
Integration is key, unfortunately our Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Roma seek to establish their own distinct communities, perhaps driven by insecurity, but also due to shared values, shared religion and language. This does not apply to the East African Asians who left Uganda, they did not put themselves in ghettos and are fully integrated. I think the answer is one of class, the Bangladeshi, Pakistanis and Roma we have are essentially peasants with a tribal outlook and culture; whereas the Ugandan asians were business people, entrepreneurs, with all that entails

Sums it up well, some on here condemned Herbi when he mentioned the integration problem with some groups I fully understand what he experiences it is bad in parts of Lancashire other parts within a few miles are literally worlds away and comfortable.

Polish, Turkish, Iraqi's, Indians, Africans people of my acquaintance bungle along fine the issue I'm almost afraid to say is a Muslim one some are fine but so many simply only want us for what they can get and complain then about it.

I suppose I tar myself with the racist brush..... so be it.

 

[prwales]

Sums it up well, some on here condemned Herbi when he mentioned the integration problem with some groups I fully understand what he experiences it is bad in parts of Lancashire other parts within a few miles are literally worlds away and comfortable.

Polish, Turkish, Iraqi's, Indians, Africans people of my acquaintance bungle along fine the issue I'm almost afraid to say is a Muslim one some are fine but so many simply only want us for what they can get and complain then about it.

I suppose I tar myself with the racist brush..... so be it.

The problem is not Islam as such its cultural framework of those who interpret it and the problem interpretations come from backward tribal cultures; they frame Islam in terms of their often savage and again backward tribal, predominantly rural cultures.

 

[M80]

Any international is here for what they can get from being here, without incentive they wouldn't be here. Or expats there, where ever there is.

Not respecting the laws of the host, and expecting the host to accommodate new cultures is the issue. New cultures being practised without them impacting on the host is no problem.

I have no issue with internationals, the word immigrant seems so negative and even insulting, choosing how much they wish to integrate. As I might if I were in Saudi, Nepal or even some parts of the US.