DIESEL SCAPEGOATS - WE ARE SCRAP?

[C350Carl]

Kill Bob?

Bill*

 

[JBell]

King Bob?

Corrected that for you

 

[Craiglxviii]

Bill*

Blackadder's Bob.

I thought you'd have gotten that one...

 

[davemercedes]

The tax system is so complex there are always people "subsidising" others. I personally disliked subsidising people to buy new cars under the scrappage scheme and for people to buy 400k flats in London under the "help to buy" scheme but there you go, that's life. But then I come to Spain where cars over 25 years pay no road tax and insurance is under 100 quid a year and diesel is cheaper than petrol (just filled up at 1€ or 82p per litre) so there's probably people somewhere moaning about subsidising me.

No politician is thinking of banning anything, other than some old petrols/diesels from city centres. Rather than go on huge rants about it perhaps just spend the time working out if you actually drive in city centres that maybe affected and if so how to not drive into them (it's not a pleasant or wise thing to do to drive into central london in any car regardless of the emissions as there are quicker cheaper alternatives). Rows of queues of 1 person vehicles on the main routes in/out of London for 3 hours a day is a very 20th century answer to commuting, regardless of whether they emit harmful pollution or not. School run traffic doing less than 3 miles a day in urban environments is a similarly stupid idea, particularly considering how little exercise most people seem to do each day.

I think the rant is a quite reasonable response to the politicians who jumped on the (then) bandwagon and actively promoted diesel cars as the "healthy choice. It's also not a rolling stone because it's gathering so much moss that gradually anyone who runs a diesel will be flagged up as a "dirty villain" who should be horse-whipped etc. They won't do that of course but while hiding behind the "green needs of the planet", mainline politicians will start to clobber diesel owners in the two ways available i.e.: via road tax and at the pumps - both things that we as drivers cannot avoid. Local politicians everywhere will in turn be rubbing their hands in glee as the "manna" of diesel charges grows. And just like bailing out the banks etc the "ordinary hard working people" that politicians love to claim they care about most (!) including Mrs Maybe's "just managing" lot will have to pay and pay... especially if they cannot afford to fund a change of vehicle (with an ever decreasing part-exchange value looming as well) while the more affluent will simply buy a different vehicle and move on.

 

[geraldrobins]

I think the rant is a quite reasonable response to the politicians who jumped on the (then) bandwagon and actively promoted diesel cars as the "healthy choice. It's also not a rolling stone because it's gathering so much moss that gradually anyone who runs a diesel will be flagged up as a "dirty villain" who should be horse-whipped etc. They won't do that of course but while hiding behind the "green needs of the planet", mainline politicians will start to clobber diesel owners in the two ways available i.e.: via road tax and at the pumps - both things that we as drivers cannot avoid. Local politicians everywhere will in turn be rubbing their hands in glee as the "manna" of diesel charges grows. And just like bailing out the banks etc the "ordinary hard working people" that politicians love to claim they care about most (!) including Mrs Maybe's "just managing" lot will have to pay and pay... especially if they cannot afford to fund a change of vehicle (with an ever decreasing part-exchange value looming as well) while the more affluent will simply buy a different vehicle and move on.

There is nothing announced yet on this issue just some recommendations, and the majority may not be adversely affected as I see it.

 

[davemercedes]

An interesting aside here...

This morning, I was looking at the web site of a well established and respected independent who sells cars as well as offering servicing. Out of 70-ish vehicles on offer there are only two or three petrol cars - all the rest are diesel. I don't know how many would be "lucky" enough to be in the EURO-6 category (they should miss getting clobbered by city charges) but going by the registration years shown, quite a few of them must be in lower classes. It remains to be seen of course, how long it will be before the city councillors decide to hit all visiting diesel vehicles (because they can) as the number of lower EURO category vehicles shrinks.

 

[davemercedes]

>> October 23rd the ... Toxic cars charge -

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/787133/diesel-tax-cars-fine-pollution-toxic-charge-UK

There is nothing announced yet on this issue just some recommendations, and the majority may not be adversely affected as I see it.

London City have certainly announced that they will be charging heavily for daily entrance and parking (above) and the word was that 35 other cities are considering the same:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=what+euro+class+of+diesel+will+escape+london+road+charges?&oq=what+euro+class+of+diesel+will+escape+london+road+charges?&aqs=chrome..69i57.32391j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

As I said, as usual it's "ordinary" people who have to bear the cost and it's coming sooner rather than later.

 

[d215yq]

I think the rant is a quite reasonable response to the politicians who jumped on the (then) bandwagon and actively promoted diesel cars as the "healthy choice. It's also not a rolling stone because it's gathering so much moss that gradually anyone who runs a diesel will be flagged up as a "dirty villain" who should be horse-whipped etc. They won't do that of course but while hiding behind the "green needs of the planet", mainline politicians will start to clobber diesel owners in the two ways available i.e.: via road tax and at the pumps - both things that we as drivers cannot avoid. Local politicians everywhere will in turn be rubbing their hands in glee as the "manna" of diesel charges grows. And just like bailing out the banks etc the "ordinary hard working people" that politicians love to claim they care about most (!) including Mrs Maybe's "just managing" lot will have to pay and pay... especially if they cannot afford to fund a change of vehicle (with an ever decreasing part-exchange value looming as well) while the more affluent will simply buy a different vehicle and move on.

Rant if you want but it won't change anything. I've long been running old mercs (petrol and currently diesel) ignoring the majority of those folk who think they are worse for the environment/unreliable/very costly because that's what the government/media told them whilst quietly pointing out that they get better/as good mpg as the equivalent new car and don't have to be built every 10 years and create all the pollution that entails to those who I care about enough to enter into a discussion with and their overall cost of running is incredibly low.

There are no proposals yet other than banning certain diesels from central london which you will probably never visit anyway, and if you did would be wiser to go by public transport than drive in any car anyway. Yes it's annoying but it's small fry. I wonder how much of a cost the extra potential taxes are compared to the depreciation most pay anyway? With a lot of people it's like "the evil government have just raised my car tax by 100 and added 2p to fuel duty so I pay an extra 100 a year on that (some of which they might even spend on NHS/education). Yet when the car "needs" renewing after 3 years (out of warranty so must be impossibly expensive to run) they're happy to hand over 20k in difference to Mercedes Benz (or whatever manufacturer) who certainly won't be spending one penny of it on education/NHS/other public goods.

 

[S500 Pete]

If we want to make everybody pay fairly for pollution why not just add an amount of extra tax to fuel. That way the more you use the more you pay. We could also get rid of multiple levels of road tax and a lot of expensive administration (sorry to anybody in Swansea).

 

[davemercedes]

Well, the fact remains that government did promote diesel as the "more healthy" and they have admitted it so just as we are supposed to trust our politicians with Brexit negotiations, we should be able to trust their advice on matters such as vehicles - after all, next to a house it's normally the most expensive thing we buy!

It's correct that there are no proposals yet other than banning certain diesels from central London but we all know that an income bandwagon is always attractive to politicians (of every political shade). I wouldn't normally go and have only driven into central London once in the last 10/15 years but since I live way away from there, the overall cost for two of us to go by car, including the existing congestion charge for two days was still much cheaper than using public transport. Moreover, the central London streets were almost deserted and the spin off benefit was that it was almost a pleasure to drive around!

The nearest city for us is Birmingham and we do go into the centre by car - it's drastically more convenient than going in by bus + train + bus or taxi etc. and for the occasional trip I put up with the cost of parking. But as I said the bandwagon effect will hurt because the professional tree-huggers will soon realise there's a fund waiting to be raped and pillaged!

Also sorry, but you're talking about other people when you mention those who are ready to part with £20K or more to update their vehicle with the latest version... I'm afraid I have a natural aversion to parting with money and I think I can look after it much better in my bank than paying it to a car sales company without necessity! When I bought my current car (2007 C Estate) about four years ago it had low mileage etc and was more or less intended to be my "last" car and I did consider the latest government advice and presumed that with proper servicing etc it would have a long life so I do feel irritated by the "we got it wrong, doh!" news.

 

[geraldrobins]

>> October 23rd the ... Toxic cars charge -

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/787133/diesel-tax-cars-fine-pollution-toxic-charge-UK

London City have certainly announced that they will be charging heavily for daily entrance and parking (above) and the word was that 35 other cities are considering the same:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=what+euro+class+of+diesel+will+escape+london+road+charges?&oq=what+euro+class+of+diesel+will+escape+london+road+charges?&aqs=chrome..69i57.32391j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

As I said, as usual it's "ordinary" people who have to bear the cost and it's coming sooner rather than later.

The

If we want to make everybody pay fairly for pollution why not just add an amount of extra tax to fuel. That way the more you use the more you pay. We could also get rid of multiple levels of road tax and a lot of expensive administration (sorry to anybody in Swansea).

If its dangerous to health in some locations then clearly we have to do something positive but include all vehicles and make the most polluting stay outside of those areas? This will mean more public transport such as park and ride schemes etc.

 

[davemercedes]

If we want to make everybody pay fairly for pollution why not just add an amount of extra tax to fuel. That way the more you use the more you pay. We could also get rid of multiple levels of road tax and a lot of expensive administration (sorry to anybody in Swansea).

I totally agree with that. We have reps on motorways still today doing 30-40,000 miles a year which is edging towards three times the average but they only pay one road tax bill of course. Adding the cost into the fuel price would be the fairest way to make sure it would be road-use related.

The only thing is of course, how long would it be before some clever MP suggested a new "temporary" road tax to pay for all the overdue road repairs etc... (well, every other bit of history gets repeated!).

 

[geraldrobins]

I totally agree with that. We have reps on motorways still today doing 30-40,000 miles a year which is edging towards three times the average but they only pay one road tax bill of course. Adding the cost into the fuel price would be the fairest way to make sure it would be road-use related.

The only thing is of course, how long would it be before some clever MP suggested a new "temporary" road tax to pay for all the overdue road repairs etc... (well, every other bit of history gets repeated!).

The tax payer always picks up the bill though. Who else will?

 

[LostKiwi]

Well, the fact remains that government did promote diesel as the "more healthy"

Actually no they didn't. They promoted it as being better for the environment which is a bit different.
The thing now is they have realised (finally) that better for the environment comes at a cost to human health which is a real and far more immediate problem. NOx is a particularly nasty pollutant as it sets up the human body for infection from many sources by disabling the cilia in the lungs that are part of the bodies immune system.

 

[Frosty149]

My understanding is that black cabs will be exempt...
After all how will those politicians get around London?

 

[Craiglxviii]

My understanding is that black cabs will be exempt...
After all how will those politicians get around London?

They have Commons chauffeured pool cars for that.

 

[davemercedes]

Well of course... their journeys are much more important than plebs like us make!

 

[Frosty149]

Wow,
I can't find too much to agree with there, surely we should be thinking rather bigger than nationalism, and pulling up the metaphorical draw-bridge?
No offense, but your approach doesn't solve the problem.

 

[turbopete]

My understanding is that black cabs will be exempt...
After all how will those politicians get around London?

so what would be the point of charging others then? why would someone want to park up their own diesel car and use a taxi, under the pretence of being more 'pollution friendly'? im pretty sure a Euro 5 diesel car with, for example, 80k miles would be better for air quality than a Euro 4 (or earlier) black cab with 2, 3 or even 400k (or more) Miles? injectors etc are BOUND to be worn more on a higher mileage vehicle!

 

[A.J.]

There has been a large ship outside the office that has been running all day yesterday and is now on it's second day, they don't seem to recognise the level of pollution that is being chucked out !!. There is always something running in the Harbour, and that is just ours which is just relatively small fry, larger harbours have obviously multiples of our problem. There must be a sizeable ring of pollution around this country and all of the counties in the world. Now that seems to me to be a huge problem !!