Mercedes Diesel software update.

[Tony Dyson]

I found a german Daimler web page:
https://www.mercedes-benz.de/passen...and-repair/altfahrzeug-ruecknahme.module.html
that allows you to enter a chassis number (find "Fahrzeug-Identifizierungsnummer" mine WDD205.....) and this gives a reply in German whether the update is "voluntary" or a "recall". The message I received was written in german so I pasted it into Google translate & it read:
"Your vehicle (FIN WDD205..Deleted..) is part of the voluntary customer service measure. You will receive further information on the specific process from us as soon as the measure begins. Your Mercedes-Benz service partner is prepared for the measure and will be happy to answer your questions." It seems that for my car the action is "voluntary" not mandatory & hopefully I will not have to cancel my service contract.

So it would appear MB are attempting to show a little more courtesy to their Deutsche speaking customers than they are to others, when booking my car in for it's service I was informed of the pending update and the Service Agent responded to my queries with a throw away comment on the lines of "it's to do with the Emissions, that's all we know"

 

[Avnt]

Ive just put mine in the german website and it says the same. Mines a 2010 C Class


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Mine says "The update has already been made for your vehicle (FIN WDD2120252A082770)"....

 

[Tony Dyson]

Mine says "The update has already been made for your vehicle (FIN WDD2120252A082770)"....

Armed now with the specific and correct details of the update published on an MB website, you have recourse to take serious action against the dealership that essentially (told) you a pack of lies and infected your car with the update under false pretences, was their advice verbal or written?

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Sorry, I’m confused - how does this German MB site change things?

 

[Botus]

did you guys read the TSBs that have been leaked, in most cases there are three sperate faults they are removing during these engine software updates ?

one is a moral necessity and two you need for the car's reliability. Anyone deliberately avoiding it needs therapy!

one, the illegal emissions it had leaving the factory (related to fake data created from the outside temp sensor)
two, fixing the DPF blocking / not regenerating correctly
three, the EU mandated removal of a pretend fault that makes the EML light come on just for the dealer to get some money

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

No, could you link it for us please?

 

[Tony Dyson]

did you guys read the TSBs that have been leaked, in most cases there are three sperate faults they are removing during these engine software updates ?

one is a moral necessity and two you need for the car's reliability. Anyone deliberately avoiding it needs therapy!

one, the illegal emissions it had leaving the factory (related to fake data created from the outside temp sensor)
two, fixing the DPF blocking / not regenerating correctly
three, the EU mandated removal of a pretend fault that makes the EML light come on just for the dealer to get some money

If you have any details from original sources of what the update actually does, with links to those sources it would be greatly appreciated if you would have the decency to post them for easy reference to allow others to make more informed decisions. I have requested these details from MB and been ignored, again from dealerships and been told they don't know, if all you're prepared to do is post random acrimonious opinions of what tantamounts to groundless supposition and urban myth, peppered with lightly veiled personal insults, you can shove it, back into that dark place you periodically creep out of.

 

[Tony Dyson]

Sorry, I’m confused - how does this German MB site change things?

I understand from previous posts you were lied to by the dealership that this update was mandatory which prompted you to sign the waiver? the MB website clearly states that the software update is optional, so if you didn't want the update you have a case for them to answer to don't you?

 

[LostKiwi]

If you have any details from original sources of what the update actually does, with links to those sources it would be greatly appreciated if you would have the decency to post them for easy reference to allow others to make more informed decisions. I have requested these details from MB and been ignored, again from dealerships and been told they don't know, if all you're prepared to do is post random acrimonious opinions of what tantamounts to groundless supposition and urban myth, peppered with lightly veiled personal insults, you can shove it, back into that dark place you periodically creep out of.

Great way to get someone to do something you want....

 

[Tony Dyson]

Great way to get someone to do something you want....

Foregone conclusion, the information doesn't exist in the public domain.

 

[LostKiwi]

Foregone conclusion, the information doesn't exist in the public domain.

Have you tried looking here?

https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls

 

[Tony Dyson]

Why on earth would I look to the US for issues that affect products manufactured for the EU market? especially when the update is related to EU legislation, the site doesn't even recognise my VIN! which isn't surprising.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

I understand from previous posts you were lied to by the dealership that this update was mandatory which prompted you to sign the waiver? the MB website clearly states that the software update is optional, so if you didn't want the update you have a case for them to answer to don't you?

My story: I took my car in for a service @ MB Brooklands. Service admin talked me though a few things, then quietly tagged on that there was an ECU update under his breath. I said 'oh?' and he moved on to a new topic. I didn't think much about it (I inferred that a software update was a positive thing - he did not mention emissions or NOx or what the update was for) until a couple of hours later, I remembered something about a map modification that I'd read about on a forum somewhere. So I called up while they still had my car and he told me that it was too late and that the update had been applied. I asked if it was reversible - no. I asked if it affects performance or economy, he said no. I collected the car and asked them again if it will affect anything, he said no.

I then took the car away and eventually noticed that there was increased consumption and that the car wasn't changing into 7th on the motorway. I thought it was possibly a DPF issue as the holding onto the 6th gear is what the car does when the car is regenerating. I actually bought a new thermostat and cleaned out the EGR in case these were possible causes for the increased consumption - they had no affect.

MB Brooklands took the car back in to investigate the increased consumption with a possible DPF fault. I have a car tracker so I can see that they didn't actually 'drive' the car and simply plugged it in and checked for codes, which it didn't have, and told me everything was fine and sent me on my way. They probably looked at it for 20mins max.

I tried to escalate my complaint and called/spoke to MBUK Customer service and a quite rude person there called Thomas Briody told me that the update was not optional and that the voluntary part was due to MB volunteering to create/apply this update to their vehicles.

He was/is wrong, sure, but I don't see where to go from here. They are not willing to help me further - he told me to take it up with MB Brooklands.

Sorry for the essay, anyway, but it feels like unless I decide to take legal action which will probably fail, there's not much I can do other than hope that MB issue another update at some point which improved the drivability and economy of the car.

Ed

 

[Botus]

one is a moral necessity and two you need for the car's reliability. Anyone deliberately avoiding it needs therapy!

one, the illegal emissions it had leaving the factory (related to fake data created from the outside temp sensor)
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachme...ns-207-coupe-212-sedan-ecu-os-temp-sensor.pdf

two, fixing the DPF blocking / not regenerating correctly
you'll have to look for this yourself, I know its out there and I don't even own one. The DPF can't "correctly" regen in the set up it had when it left the factory. Its taken years and seven iterations of the DPF pressure sensor plus software updates (I guess to the Selective Catalytic Reduction SCR module) to work well. Without these updates the regen fails to operate correctly and in the end the DFP becomes irrevocably blocked. And you should get engine damage with increasing oil level / dilution of the oil quality as you fill the sump with diesel.

three, the EU mandated removal of a pretend fault that makes the EML light come on just for the dealer to get some money
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachme...-212-sedan-mb-service-campaign-2019040001.pdf

another reason to get it updated properly - same clock issue in multiple cars that impacted the 221 S class, but they fixed on these

Recall Campaign 2019120008 DEC19 – 2013-2017 CLA-Class (117), GLA-Class (156), M-Class/GLE/GL/GLS-Class (166), SLK/SLC-Class (172), AMG GT-Class (190), GLK/C-Class (204), C-Class (205), E-Class Coupe/Cabrio (207), E-Class (212), S-Class Coupe/Cabrio (217), CLS-Class (218), S-Class (222), SL (231), B-Class (242), GLC-Class (253), GLE Coupe-Class (292), G-Class (463) due to a software fault in the communication module as provided by the supplier, the date and time as determined from the GPS satellite data could differ from the actual date and time starting on November 4, 2019. The correct date and time are necessary for the "Assisted-GPS" function to determine the vehicle position. Dealer will update communication module software. Approximately 24,473 vehicles affected.

and before we pretend its not for your car... Mercedes aren't idiots, they need to phase things in certain ways in an attempt to keep the exact reason we all need these updates close to their chest to ensure they don't encourage litigatious owners (as we've seen some are down right desperate for a fight even when the fix is for their benefit).

And where possible try to keep the information under wraps... Just look at Ford UK, extended the warranty on dodgy DSG gearboxes to 5 years but forgot to tell anyone, whereas Ford in USA and Australia recently fitted a brand new gearbox, clutch, control module and software in ALL affected cars from 2011

 

[LostKiwi]

Why on earth would I look to the US for issues that affect products manufactured for the EU market? especially when the update is related to EU legislation, the site doesn't even recognise my VIN! which isn't surprising.

Why look at a US site?
How about because MB are a global company and often a fix for a problem will cross geographic and marketing boundaries.

 

[Tony Dyson]

one is a moral necessity and two you need for the car's reliability. Anyone deliberately avoiding it needs therapy!

one, the illegal emissions it had leaving the factory (related to fake data created from the outside temp sensor)
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachme...ns-207-coupe-212-sedan-ecu-os-temp-sensor.pdf

two, fixing the DPF blocking / not regenerating correctly
you'll have to look for this yourself, I know its out there and I don't even own one. The DPF can't "correctly" regen in the set up it had when it left the factory. Its taken years and seven iterations of the DPF pressure sensor plus software updates (I guess to the Selective Catalytic Reduction SCR module) to work well. Without these updates the regen fails to operate correctly and in the end the DFP becomes irrevocably blocked. And you should get engine damage with increasing oil level / dilution of the oil quality as you fill the sump with diesel.

three, the EU mandated removal of a pretend fault that makes the EML light come on just for the dealer to get some money
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachme...-212-sedan-mb-service-campaign-2019040001.pdf

another reason to get it updated properly - same clock issue in multiple cars that impacted the 221 S class, but they fixed on these

Recall Campaign 2019120008 DEC19 – 2013-2017 CLA-Class (117), GLA-Class (156), M-Class/GLE/GL/GLS-Class (166), SLK/SLC-Class (172), AMG GT-Class (190), GLK/C-Class (204), C-Class (205), E-Class Coupe/Cabrio (207), E-Class (212), S-Class Coupe/Cabrio (217), CLS-Class (218), S-Class (222), SL (231), B-Class (242), GLC-Class (253), GLE Coupe-Class (292), G-Class (463) due to a software fault in the communication module as provided by the supplier, the date and time as determined from the GPS satellite data could differ from the actual date and time starting on November 4, 2019. The correct date and time are necessary for the "Assisted-GPS" function to determine the vehicle position. Dealer will update communication module software. Approximately 24,473 vehicles affected.

and before we pretend its not for your car... Mercedes aren't idiots, they need to phase things in certain ways in an attempt to keep the exact reason we all need these updates close to their chest to ensure they don't encourage litigatious owners (as we've seen some are down right desperate for a fight even when the fix is for their benefit)

Well that's all very interesting but I fail to see where any on the above bears any tenuous relationship to the current "Emissions Update" rolling out in the UK?
Are you a Daimler employee ?

 

[Tony Dyson]

Why look at a US site?
How about because MB are a global company and often a fix for a problem will cross geographic and marketing boundaries.

Yes I understand it can do, but the information published on the NHTSA site you promoted is a US governmental site providing specific guidance to the US domestic market, nothing to do particularly with MB global policies, the current Emissions Update rollout in the UK or the EU Real Driving Emissions legislation that triggered it in 2016. Global announcements I would expect to emanate from Germany.

 

[Tony Dyson]

My story: I took my car in for a service @ MB Brooklands. Service admin talked me though a few things, then quietly tagged on that there was an ECU update under his breath. I said 'oh?' and he moved on to a new topic. I didn't think much about it (I inferred that a software update was a positive thing - he did not mention emissions or NOx or what the update was for) until a couple of hours later, I remembered something about a map modification that I'd read about on a forum somewhere. So I called up while they still had my car and he told me that it was too late and that the update had been applied. I asked if it was reversible - no. I asked if it affects performance or economy, he said no. I collected the car and asked them again if it will affect anything, he said no.

I then took the car away and eventually noticed that there was increased consumption and that the car wasn't changing into 7th on the motorway. I thought it was possibly a DPF issue as the holding onto the 6th gear is what the car does when the car is regenerating. I actually bought a new thermostat and cleaned out the EGR in case these were possible causes for the increased consumption - they had no affect.

MB Brooklands took the car back in to investigate the increased consumption with a possible DPF fault. I have a car tracker so I can see that they didn't actually 'drive' the car and simply plugged it in and checked for codes, which it didn't have, and told me everything was fine and sent me on my way. They probably looked at it for 20mins max.

I tried to escalate my complaint and called/spoke to MBUK Customer service and a quite rude person there called Thomas Briody told me that the update was not optional and that the voluntary part was due to MB volunteering to create/apply this update to their vehicles.

He was/is wrong, sure, but I don't see where to go from here. They are not willing to help me further - he told me to take it up with MB Brooklands.

Sorry for the essay, anyway, but it feels like unless I decide to take legal action which will probably fail, there's not much I can do other than hope that MB issue another update at some point which improved the drivability and economy of the car.

Ed

My apologies, your post at No 20 led me to believe you had been lied to by the dealership and you didn't want the update installed after all.

 

[Botus]

this is all in this or the other post already...

As far as I know even with the full might of the anti competition factions within California's EPA they still haven't worked out how BMW are cheating the system and getting their diesel cars to pass emission testing.

However, we do know VW wanted their diesel car's to drive nicely, so they decided the most technically efficient way to do this economically, was to work around a flaw when undergoing laboratory testing for emissions. When the steering wheel sensor (used for the ESP) is not recording any movement - run in legal map mode, otherwise always use the nice to drive illegal engine map.

GM and Mercedes Benz found a different way. This is now very well known. During the laboratory emission testing phase "room temperature" is very carefully controlled. When a Mercedes notices these stable temperature conditions are met for an extended period, it always runs using its original legal map. Unfortunately outside these specific temperatures conditions (i.e. all of the time) an unknown "bug" in the engine management software "accidentally" forces the car to operate exclusively using a cold start engine map. Had it been using this "cold start" map during emission testing it would have failed.

That last point is why many have been using the term "illegal" and why "its immoral not to get the car updated ASAP"