And so it begins.. tackling r230 wheel arch rust.

[Conor]

Also.. I was reading Malcolms previous comments/threads about R230 arch repairs and see the mentioned using some U Channel rubber to protect the edge, combined with some semi-hard Waxoyl.

I think I may order some of this for once the job is done to offer some edge protection, where I think might be a bit of a weak point.

Also, how have people seen the arch rim filled in, in their repairs. I mean, to prevent dirst / grime getting and restarting the cycle?

 

[Conor]

Is anybody a member on detailingworld.co.uk forum? Can somebody ping a moderator and ask them to approve my account? Username is "conor". Mod, please delete this if inappropriate, but I am desperate lol :/

 

[Blobcat]

Is anybody a member on detailingworld.co.uk forum? Can somebody ping a moderator and ask them to approve my account? Username is "conor". Mod, please delete this if inappropriate, but I am desperate lol :/

You're going to be on so many forum's you'll never get any work done...

 

[Conor]

You're going to be on so many forum's you'll never get any work done...

You are onto something.. gotta fill my my 12 hours minimum at my desk some way.

This is my most prolific forum though.

 

[Conor]

Conor - the "bad boy" is what you need, the brass one isn't tough enough. I really would recommend an angle grinder, drills generally do not have enough torque. Again use a full face mask! Don't need an endoscope - your phone camera should be enough. If you hadn't been in London I'd have done it all for you FOC.

Hmm, I am inclined to start thinking a grinder is the way to go, with full PPE.

Thanks for the offer to do for me, but where is the fun in that. I am enjoying this challenge. I love jumping into the deep end, sometimes it is a success

The bad boy as you describe the wire wheel is what I use for getting rust from wheel hubs before fitting calipers , it’s a good aggressive tool for that , can’t speak for how it works with paint but I would guess it would make short work of it .
I use it on a cordless 4 inch Makita angle grinder which is perfect for the job . I bourght the grinder body only so it was fairly cheap . My twin pack makita cordless drills use the same battery , so not having to run power makes life slightly easier .

I see a DeWalt 1200W for 69 quid which looks good. It is corded but be fine.. I have a long extension

 

[peterws1957]

Also.. I was reading Malcolms previous comments/threads about R230 arch repairs and see the mentioned using some U Channel rubber to protect the edge, combined with some semi-hard Waxoyl.

I think I may order some of this for once the job is done to offer some edge protection, where I think might be a bit of a weak point.

Also, how have people seen the arch rim filled in, in their repairs. I mean, to prevent dirst / grime getting and restarting the cycle?

View attachment 59651

I'm not convinced that this type of rubber channel wouldn't be another source of moisture trapping. (Old Minis with external seams covered with this type of trim were notorious for rotting round the seam) Probably worth a shot if you remove and refit after cleaning the arch area.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Oh and ... ask me where I am storing my bumper... love my wagon View attachment 59650

Seconded wouldn’t be without one!

 

[LostKiwi]

I'm not convinced that this type of rubber channel wouldn't be another source of moisture trapping. (Old Minis with external seams covered with this type of trim were notorious for rotting round the seam) Probably worth a shot if you remove and refit after cleaning the arch area.

Agreed, though if you used silicone sealant to attach it it should be pretty bomb proof.

 

[JBell]

Also... what do I do when I want to inspect the inside of the arch lip to see the extent of my abrasion? Do I stick my head in, use phone camera? Surely I don't need to buy an endoscope... I'm only half joking!

Mirror???

 

[Wighty]

Small child might fit in there

 

[Conor]

Small child might fit in there

Have you got one handy?

 

[Conor]

I just got off the phone with a body shop guy I was referred to.

He said the rust problem is impossible to solve because the panel is double skinned.

I have heard the term before.... But to be honest as far as I can see, after removing arch liner, it's a single piece of metal that has been painted and coated.

Has anybody a diagram / technical explanation of what double skinning is?

 

[Rockron]

Agreed, though if you used silicone sealant to attach it it should be pretty bomb proof.

I'm sure you meant to add "neutral cure" silicone sealant, and not
acetic acid based or acetoxy cure silicone sealant, ie typically for bathroom
use ceramic tiles and the like. These really are the devils invention when
used with steel. Even with paint separation it will migrate through
and cause very rapid corrosion.

 

[peterws1957]

I'm sure you meant to add "neutral cure" silicone sealant, and not
acetic acid based or acetoxy cure silicone sealant, ie typically for bathroom
use ceramic tiles and the like. These really are the devils invention when
used with steel. Even with paint separation it will migrate through
and cause very rapid corrosion.

I can vouch for that. I dismantled a large steel and ally model where this stuff had been applied liberally and had caused awful corrosion even on the ally bits.

 

[peterws1957]

He said the rust problem is impossible to solve because the panel is double skinned.

The usual story to cover their backs - heard it so many times it's the default position of body shops. I could be wrong (not looked lately) but is the lip of the wheel arch not a single skin? If the rust originates between two skins it is a bit more complex, but this particular problem is surface rust caused by trapped and retained moisture between the arch liner and the lip. Simple fix.

 

[Rockron]

I just got off the phone with a body shop guy I was referred to.

He said the rust problem is impossible to solve because the panel is double skinned.

I have heard the term before.... But to be honest as far as I can see, after removing arch liner, it's a single piece of metal that has been painted and coated.

Has anybody a diagram / technical explanation of what double skinning is?

Double skinning is the term used for when 2 steel sheets are used to form
a body part and usually in close proximity typically 15mm-50mm apart, which
normally means access to the inner faces of these sheets are difficult to access.
Eg. many MB commercial vehicles have double skinned sills/skirts they have a
notorious reputation for rusting due to condensation between the skins trapped
dirt blocked drain holes, and frankly 2nd rate MB treatment just a phospheric
coating, a squirt of sealer here and there to keep the panels apart helps trap
moisture.

 

[flowrider]

Also.. I was reading Malcolms previous comments/threads about R230 arch repairs and see the mentioned using some U Channel rubber to protect the edge, combined with some semi-hard Waxoyl.

I think I may order some of this for once the job is done to offer some edge protection, where I think might be a bit of a weak point.

Also, how have people seen the arch rim filled in, in their repairs. I mean, to prevent dirst / grime getting and restarting the cycle?

View attachment 59651

I wouldn't use anything on the arch lip other than waxoyl.

 

[flowrider]

I just got off the phone with a body shop guy I was referred to.

He said the rust problem is impossible to solve because the panel is double skinned.

I have heard the term before.... But to be honest as far as I can see, after removing arch liner, it's a single piece of metal that has been painted and coated.

Has anybody a diagram / technical explanation of what double skinning is?

The arch where the rust starts is not double skinned.

 

[Rockron]

A Dremel isn't powerful enough to deal with this extent of rust - use a wire wheel on an angle grinder, very effective in removing rust but you have to use face protection, because you'll find wire spikes in your skin otherwise. It won't remove solid metal either like grinding does.

Rust converters don't work in the long term in my experience, but it depends how much work you want to put in. I've used converters to turn rust pits black to identify where more work is required. You can use a Dremel to remove the final pitted areas. Done this many times on 50 plus year old cars and the rust has never come back.

What I wouldn't do is to allow a body shop to deal with rust, unless they are cutting out and welding in panels. Your approach is the best - do all the prep and get final work done by a painter.

Agree with you there. The black magnetite tell tale forms just a skin, a bit of additional
grinding, as it were inevitably finds the brown stuff lurking beneath. Back to
bright steel is the only answer I've found.

I believe the active chemical ingredient in most rust converters to be Concentrated
Tannin extract, tea/oak leaves.

Phosphoric acid of course is a good rust convertor/remover problem is in these H&S
times it's difficult to obtain in an effective concentrated state.
Clarkes Machine Mart flog 1L bottles of rust remover contains 20% phosphoric
acid, ok for horizontal(ish) surfaces or as an overnight parts dip.

 

[LostKiwi]

Phospheric acid of course is a good rust convertor/remover problem is in these H&S
times it's difficult to obtain in an effective concentrated state.

https://apcpure.com/product/phosphoric-acid-85-acs-fg

I used them to buy MEK, Ethyl Acetate and Isopropyl alcohol (99 7%) recently.