Crooks are us - shoddy petrol

[Rob7seven]

The best local place for me is Shell, so I almost always use their fuel. My previous car was an Alfa Giulia, the handbook told me that the car needed 98 so I always used that with no problems at all, apart from the Alfa dealers who were terrible, bad enough to persuade me not to buy another one, so I returned to my previous favourite, Mercedes. My C300 is good, the handbook told me that standard unleaded is fine, so I've used that, but p1ss-added, sorry 10% ethanol fuel caused an immediate drop in fuel consumption, so a few days ago when the tank was half full, I topped up with Shell V-Power 98. The car had been running OK, and there was no immediate improvement on V-Power, but fuel economy improved, I'd never seen 40 on the trip consumption before. I don't think my car had ever had anything but Shell before, but I'll be paying the extra for V-Power from now on, and that was from adding just half a tank of the better stuff, which according to the notice on the pump, is only 5% p1ss.

 

[Dean Fletcher]

I have used sainsburys fuel for a while now, seem to get 5 plus mpg than esso or BP.

 

[Naraic]

I use a mixture of BP, Maxol, EMO, Sainsbury and Tesco...and have not noticed any difference, let alone a 32% reduction.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I use a mixture of BP, Maxol, EMO, Sainsbury and Tesco...and have not noticed any difference, let alone a 32% reduction.

Agree… having worked with fuel system engineers for 8 of the last ten years I can reliably state that, particularly in this country, fuel exceeds its EN specification for quality by quite some margin. Not “generally” but “absolutely”.

 

[Botus]

ethanol has a lower energy density - when we went to 10% filth in ordinary unleaded if you haven't seen the mpg drop you aren't measuring it accurately

How Does Ethanol Impact Fuel Efficiency?

Ethanol gives us gas.

www.roadandtrack.com

Assuming you were running straight gasoline and were then forced to switch to E10 (gasoline cut 10 percent with ethanol), your mileage will drop. The big question is by how much. The Environmental Protection Agency says E10 lowers mileage approximately 3 percent, which would drop your mileage from 19.6 to 19.0 mpg. Instead you're citing a drop between 10.2 and 15.9 percent, which, while similar to some E10-induced losses we've heard of, does seem large. We typically hear of mileage drops in the 6- to nearly 10-percent range, but then, folks experiencing a 3- to 5-percent drop probably aren't fired up enough to write us.

Our opinion is your mileage drop is largely due to the lower energy content in ethanol (it's about two-thirds that of gasoline), but there are no doubt other factors involved in your figures. Chief of these would be measurement errors—checking mileage can be devilishly tricky because it is so hard to fill the tank to the same level every time—and possibly weather or seasonal changes.

 

[Craiglxviii]

ethanol has a lower energy density - when we went to 10% filth in ordinary unleaded if you haven't seen the mpg drop you aren't measuring it accurately

How Does Ethanol Impact Fuel Efficiency?

Ethanol gives us gas.

www.roadandtrack.com

Assuming you were running straight gasoline and were then forced to switch to E10 (gasoline cut 10 percent with ethanol), your mileage will drop. The big question is by how much. The Environmental Protection Agency says E10 lowers mileage approximately 3 percent, which would drop your mileage from 19.6 to 19.0 mpg. Instead you're citing a drop between 10.2 and 15.9 percent, which, while similar to some E10-induced losses we've heard of, does seem large. We typically hear of mileage drops in the 6- to nearly 10-percent range, but then, folks experiencing a 3- to 5-percent drop probably aren't fired up enough to write us.

Our opinion is your mileage drop is largely due to the lower energy content in ethanol (it's about two-thirds that of gasoline), but there are no doubt other factors involved in your figures. Chief of these would be measurement errors—checking mileage can be devilishly tricky because it is so hard to fill the tank to the same level every time—and possibly weather or seasonal changes.

The veracity of reporting in that link is somewhat dubious, right off the bat.

However, just to be clear, are you claiming that a move from E5 to E10 (which, according to your own linked source, would be a 1.5% decrease in fuel efficiency…) should be detectable by the normal motorist-in-the-street driving repeatably the same routes in the same manner?

 

[Frontstep]

I have no great issues with fuel quality but I have noticed its gone up in price.

 

[sonic]

The only petrol engine I have now is my Yamaha FJR1300, which runs on Asda or Tesco E10.
Not noticed any change in fuel consumption or preformance.

 

[rorywquin]

...............—checking mileage can be devilishly tricky because it is so hard to fill the tank to the same level every time—and possibly weather or seasonal changes.

I once asked my wife what she had paid for a grocery item. She replied that she did not know.

Me: “why don’t you know?"
Her: “why does the price matter if we need it?”

I feel the same about all the fuss over fuel consumption - I need my car, I need petrol to make it go so, I’m not going to lose sleep or more hair over mileage!

It is what it is (all things being equal) and no amount of fretting will change it. Life is too short.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Used BP Ultimate at the last fill the engine just didn’t sound right and was bogging down in low gear acceleration etc, it was a bit concerning really as I”d just done an oil service, went to a different filling station and brand (Shell) and everything is fine. My local filling station seems to be changing fuel brand regularly so will stay away from now on

 

[Blobcat]

I once asked my wife what she had paid for a grocery item. She replied that she did not know.

Me: “why don’t you know?"
Her: “why does the price matter if we need it?”

I feel the same about all the fuss over fuel consumption - I need my car, I need petrol to make it go so, I’m not going to lose sleep or more hair over mileage!

It is what it is (all things being equal) and no amount of fretting will change it. Life is too short.

The price matters when you don't have the money...

 

[drmw]

I've had the M6 for three years. I always fill it up til the pump clicks.
I have a big display thing that shows how many miles I have left. For years I have always used Shell V-Power - I have seen the "miles until finished" fluctuate +/- 10 miles from 400 when full.
This time (and last) I have used Morrisons super unleaded (c12p a litre less than Shell) - this time, my mileage was 445. Nothing I have done to alter my driving - I will let the thing tell me again when I refill & report back if this is still current.

 

[5w155t0ny]

I once asked my wife what she had paid for a grocery item. She replied that she did not know.

Me: “why don’t you know?"
Her: “why does the price matter if we need it?”

I feel the same about all the fuss over fuel consumption - I need my car, I need petrol to make it go so, I’m not going to lose sleep or more hair over mileage!

It is what it is (all things being equal) and no amount of fretting will change it. Life is too short.

I presume you will have the same attitude when you change your car and will be happy to swallow a 10% price increase then? After all, not worth losing hair or sleep over is it?

 

[rorywquin]

I presume you will have the same attitude when you change your car and will be happy to swallow a 10% price increase then? After all, not worth losing hair or sleep over is it?

Do you mean a price increase for petrol or for a car?

How would I be swallowing a price increase?

Cannot tell how the petrol would be a “price increase for me”. I currently use the most expensive petrol available.

Neither will bother me, if you need it, you have to pay the price or go without.

My point is that, there is no point in fretting about what you cannot change.

 

[rorywquin]

The price matters when you don't have the money...

Been there done that (didn’t have the money).

I took my wife’s comment on board. I didn’t fret about the cost stuff I had to have - nothing I could do about it.

I cut back on stuff I didn’t have to have.

 

[Rob7seven]

I'm more or less with rorywquin, within reason it doesn't bother me too much how much fuel costs, now retired I only do big mileages on holiday. Running any vehicle is expensive, and I suspect that most people never realise just how much their cars etc are costing them in total, the regular increases in fuel pale into insignificance in comparison with the thousands that we lose every year in depreciation, no matter which way you pay for it, either several thousand when you buy a new car, my preferred method, or pay hundreds each month to in effect rent the thing, never owning it, and eventually having to hand it back, which must be the most expensive way of all.

I drive fairly gently most of the time, the car's so effortless that's no hardship, and mainly short local journeys or wife in passenger seat, so my mpg is probably not far from the limit of what's possible. I wouldn't notice a small performance change, but I do keep close tabs on fuel consumption, always filling until the pump clicks and keeping a spreadsheet to two decimal places on my computer, obsessive, me???.

 

[Blobcat]

keeping a spreadsheet to two decimal places on my computer, obsessive, me???.

It's a slapdash attitude like that, that's ruining this country...

 

[Rob7seven]

OK then, it will be THREE places of decimal;s from now on.

 

[Botus]

The veracity of reporting in that link is somewhat dubious, right off the bat.

However, just to be clear, are you claiming that a move from E5 to E10 (which, according to your own linked source, would be a 1.5% decrease in fuel efficiency…) should be detectable by the normal motorist-in-the-street driving repeatably the same routes in the same manner?

ethanol makes less go for the same amount burnt - that's not a myth its chemistry / physics - so everyone should be seeing at least a 6% drop going from Real petrol to E10 corrode and destroy junk.

But clearly even in other countries many motorist are stating the drop is much more significant... if i can fill with budget junk and instantly see a 17% improvement some very nasty things are happening with the junk they are peddling in the UK

 

[Frontstep]

I tend to time my fill-ups with Costco visits as the fuel there is good and cheap, sorry cheaper.

It's a habit, if you have had a spell properly skint with no one to bail you out the price matters.

Where I am financially now is irrelevant the habit is set.

I look for value in all purchases no matter how many noughts.

I drive an old car out of choice.