Mercedes = Rust

[rf065]

My other concern is this constant 'Mercedes rust' clamour.
Lets get something straight - NO THEY DON'T
Only Mercs built between 1998 and 2004 rust and then to a varying degree. That's a 6 year period and it will always be painful until they work their way through to the scrapyard. .

I'm afraid they still do, some A & B classes from 2006 are reported to be having rust problems. In worst cases, parts like the tailgate have actually fallen off while the car is driven along the road.

Russ

 

[turbopete]

obviously theyre still letting the Chrysler accountants hold the purse strings instead of letting the MB accountants have a go then?! :lol::lol::lol:

 

[television]

I'm afraid they still do, some A & B classes from 2006 are reported to be having rust problems. In worst cases, parts like the tailgate have actually fallen off while the car is driven along the road.

Russ

Thats not too bad, its when a truck drives over it that gives the problem

 

[psmart]

Well some dealers do nothing about the rust on some cars, irrespective of full MB history or not (and the history has nothing to do with them going rusty in the first place)

This point is spot on. So long as the car hasnt incurred user damage such as chipping which is responsible for the rust, then Mercedes, for 30 years, regardless of where the car has been or how its sold or number of owners or current market value, should repair it, thats what they promised us, thats how they got us to buy their cars, they either honour their pledge, 30 Year Rust Warranty or their word has no value.

The idea of FMBSH for paint is hillarious, how do they service paint from the inside out? Yes, a regular checkup to ensure rust hasnt taken hold to minimise their liability or they reduce their contribution based on time from last checkup, upto 30 years, not this bull that from the 4th year you have to pray and beg for help and after 8 years God help you!! They made us a written binding promise, for 30 years, what kind of company renege's on their promises?

 

[keith100]

This threads been running so long, some cars must have gone rusty in the meantime :lol:

 

[hawk20]

Well some dealers do nothing about the rust on some cars, irrespective of full MB history or not (and the history has nothing to do with them going rusty in the first place) Anyone can read on here and elsewhere of the bitter exchanges between owners and dealers

Indeed they can. And to keep a sense of balance they can also read of other owners delight at the way that their dealer and MB dealt with the rust issue in their case.

 

[television]

This threads been running so long, some cars must have gone rusty in the meantime :lol:

Very true, we had 2 new post on this problem yesterday

 

[hawk20]

The idea of FMBSH for paint is hillarious, how do they service paint from the inside out? Yes, a regular checkup to ensure rust hasnt taken hold to minimise their liability or they reduce their contribution based on time from last checkup, upto 30 years, not this bull that from the 4th year you have to pray and beg for help and after 8 years God help you!! They made us a written binding promise, for 30 years, what kind of company renege's on their promises?

They don't require fullMBSH. Read the threads and you will see that.
They do require you to meet the T's and C's on the 30 year rust warranty.
Those who don't meet the conditions (I've seen some horrors where owners leave stone chips untreated for years, and scratches and dents and then wonder why it rusts), these people often grumble like hell.

Those who do meet the conditions and get the problem treated free are usually delighted, as you'd expect.

Those who like to consistently run MB down will try to use the refusal cases to beat MB with. But they might bear in mind that no other manufacturer offers this guarantee, and MB have undoubtedly spend a fortune on remedial work caused by this issue.

BTW there are numerous 210's with no rust problems. Plenty near me. It is not a problem that afflicted all. There is some evidence that particular batches of primers and so on were the problem when they switched over to water-based paints for environmental reasons. These paints are not waterproof -only the clear lacquer keeps the water out until full galvanising began in late 2002. About the same time as BMW also moved to galvanising.

I see a lot more old Mercs than BMW's round here at least.

 

[hawk20]

I'm afraid they still do, some A & B classes from 2006 are reported to be having rust problems. In worst cases, parts like the tailgate have actually fallen off while the car is driven along the road.

Russ

Rather misleading. A's and B's are fully galvanised. In Canada, the early models had problems where the door panels are turned over at the edges. All are being fixed free. Later models have no problems. My brother has an early A class. And good friends of mine have an early B class. Neither has any rust. I have not (yet) seen any reports of this problem on UK cars.

Could be the prolonged salting in Canada helps to trigger the problem?

 

[jberks]

The other point is that it's not a 30 year rust warranty. It never was. Its a 30 year anti perforation warranty - which is an utterly different prospect.
It's cobblers really as, whilst a 25 year old car may well rot through from the inside, its unlikely it will have fmbsh by the time it does.
Like all of these things, teh warranty is 90% marketing and 10% engineering.
They know full well that my the time a car needs the warranty, it will be excluded by Ts&Cs, but it sounds good. If you do stick with the dealers for 30 years then I suspect you'll be so rare, they'll look after you anyway. After all, you'll have spent so much with the dealers they'll be able to afford to.

The rust warranty is 8 years and for the most part MB don't argue about FMBSH.
Some dealers seem to, but, for being stroppy arrogant !*&*"s they wouldn't get my business.

 

[hawk20]

The other point is that it's not a 30 year rust warranty. It never was. Its a 30 year anti perforation warranty - which is an utterly different prospect.
It's cobblers really as, whilst a 25 year old car may well rot through from the inside, its unlikely it will have fmbsh by the time it does.
.

I'm normally a great fan of your postings Jberks but this one is just not fair. THEY DO NOT REQUIRE fullMBSH for the 30 year 'perforation warranty'. Read the threads and numerous people both here and in the USA have been treated who had very patchy service records.

 

[television]

They don't require fullMBSH. Read the threads and you will see that.
They do require you to meet the T's and C's on the 30 year rust warranty.
Those who don't meet the conditions (I've seen some horrors where owners leave stone chips untreated for years, and scratches and dents and then wonder why it rusts), these people often grumble like hell.

Those who do meet the conditions and get the problem treated free are usually delighted, as you'd expect.

Those who like to consistently run MB down will try to use the refusal cases to beat MB with. But they might bear in mind that no other manufacturer offers this guarantee, and MB have undoubtedly spend a fortune on remedial work caused by this issue.

BTW there are numerous 210's with no rust problems. Plenty near me. It is not a problem that afflicted all. There is some evidence that particular batches of primers and so on were the problem when they switched over to water-based paints for environmental reasons. These paints are not waterproof -only the clear lacquer keeps the water out until full galvanising began in late 2002. About the same time as BMW also moved to galvanising.

I see a lot more old Mercs than BMW's round here at least.

95% of all of the rust faults on here and elsewhere is rust in the rear wheel arches, so this is nothing to do with stone chips, the design of the wheel arch liners are party to blame as they do not seal the wheel arch as they do on other makes. On all models of MB a thick deposit of mud can build up and sit there, so thick that it seldom ever dries, this causes most of the rust here. This fault is so stupid and avoidable if only the design team made contact with the service depts the liners could be just that ½"wider to seal the things off, that is what ever other car maker has done, and that is why no other cars rust during the same period.

Stone chips do not cause rust around the rear boot locks (220) bottoms of the doors (208,210,220) this fault is bad stampings where a burr has been left around the stamping allowing water to sit and never dry out.

I cannot recall anyone objecting to a refusal to a rust repair for bonnet stone chips, as that is fair. I do have stone chips untreated on my V70R bonnet for some 3 years but they do not grow into those big ugly scars that you see on MB's for the same years, the reason here is that the metal is a much better quality

Every car maker uses the same paints, so that is no excuse at all, and they have been using the same paints since 1990 roughly

 

[hawk20]

Stone chips do not cause rust around the rear boot locks (220) bottoms of the doors (208,210,220) this fault is bad stampings where a burr has been left around the stamping allowing water to sit and never dry out.

I cannot recall anyone objecting to a refusal to a rust repair for bonnet stone chips, as that is fair. I do have stone chips untreated on my V70R bonnet for some 3 years but they do not grow into those big ugly scars that you see on MB's for the same years, the reason here is that the metal is a much better quality.

.

I understand about the wheel arches.

Perhaps the Volvo doesn't rust when stone chipped because it is galvanised isn't it? So are MBs from end 2002/beginning 2003.

People have been turned down for many reasons that are fair but human nature is to have a good grumble when rejected. For example the condition that accident repairs are done by an approved bodyshop.

Roll on the day when the affected cars have either been treated or long gone. A sad chapter for those affected, for MB and for their fans. All I am saying is that MB have publicly accepted the problem and spent millions on treating a large number of cases here and abroad, and have -in many many cases, not insisted on the tightest possible interpretation of the T's and C's.

Lots of others have had rust issues. Including loads of BMW's from the same era (check out their websites). They are now galvanised (at least partially in BMW's case) due to their problems and they began galvanising at around the same time MB did.

 

[television]

On a good and nice note I popped into the MB showroom today and took a good look at the 204 and the 212.

The wheel arches on the 204 are rolled in so that there is no edge that can ever rust, and the plastic liner is much better, and a closer fit, it was the same back and front, though more attention has been given to the rear.

On the 212 this also has a rolled edge back and front, and the rears have an additional metal shiel fitted on the inside.

I have never in my life seen a better job being made here, the rolled edge gives strength and no rust to come, nice one MB.

It is a shame that the problem ever came up, it also took some years before this came to a head, it will go away

 

[rf065]

Rather misleading.

Could be the prolonged salting in Canada helps to trigger the problem?

There are thousands affected in Germany & elsewhere, nothing to do with Canadian salt.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w169-class/1442577-class-06-rust-bucket.html

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w245-b-class/1430142-warning-all-b-class-owner-rust.html


Russ

 

[hawk20]

On a good and nice note I popped into the MB showroom today and took a good look at the 204 and the 212.

The wheel arches on the 204 are rolled in so that there is no edge that can ever rust, and the plastic liner is much better, and a closer fit, it was the same back and front, though more attention has been given to the rear.

On the 212 this also has a rolled edge back and front, and the rears have an additional metal shiel fitted on the inside.

I have never in my life seen a better job being made here, the rolled edge gives strength and no rust to come, nice one MB.

It is a shame that the problem ever came up, it also took some years before this came to a head, it will go away

Careful Malcolm. You are not supposed to say nice things about MB or their dealers on this forum or you will accused of being a brown-nose.

 

[philharve]

Better designed liners

On a good and nice note I popped into the MB showroom today and took a good look at the 204 and the 212.

The wheel arches on the 204 are rolled in so that there is no edge that can ever rust, and the plastic liner is much better, and a closer fit, it was the same back and front, though more attention has been given to the rear.

On the 212 this also has a rolled edge back and front, and the rears have an additional metal shiel fitted on the inside.

I have never in my life seen a better job being made here, the rolled edge gives strength and no rust to come, nice one MB.

It is a shame that the problem ever came up, it also took some years before this came to a head, it will go away

Hi Malcolm

Would the fitting of better designed liners to older cars, like my 2000 C class, following its professional wheel arch job, further inhibit future corrosion or is it unnecessary if the job was done well?

When I drove a Toyota (my previous car) if any part failed in sufficient numbers, the part was redesigned and replaced at the next failure. I remember the door lock surround and door lamp holder being replaced during the 17 years I owned my Celica GTI. Neither was the subject of a recall.

Does MB do this - fit uprated/redesigned components - outside of a recall, say at the next service?

REGARDS

Phil

 

[keith100]

The wheel arches on the 204 are rolled in so that there is no edge that can ever rust, and the plastic liner is much better, and a closer fit, it was the same back and front, though more attention has been given to the rear.

When the weather finally warmed up, about 6 mos after I bought mine, I finally took a close look and I noticed this nicely finished feature. I also, for the first time, had a look under the hood. Yup, hardly recognize a thing! Slam! Oh well, little lights will come one when something is low, and eventually, I will notice them.

Could be the prolonged salting in Canada helps to trigger the problem?

Not really, Hawk. Rust hasn't been a problem here, on most cars, since the mid 90's. Not even Hyundai. However, I haven't seen any rusty B's around Toronto.

Not that there are many.

 

[jberks]

I'm normally a great fan of your postings Jberks but this one is just not fair. THEY DO NOT REQUIRE fullMBSH for the 30 year 'perforation warranty'. Read the threads and numerous people both here and in the USA have been treated who had very patchy service records.

Thanks Hawk.
Not sure about this one. The differentiation is the 30 year anti performation warranty and the 8 year paintwork warranty. Most owners and saldy far too many dealers, seem to combine the two. but, and I stand to be corrected, they are 2 distinct and separate warranties.

The paintwork warranty afaik does not depend on FMBSH. Often a dealer will refuse to make a claim as they think you need fmbsh but as you say, many have been fixed regardless of history. Its this warranty, as I undertsand it, that has been used to deal with the rust. Hence, people with 2001 cars are now getting rejected regardless of history.

The 30 year perforation warranty on the other hand, as I understand it, is attached to the whole Mobilio thing. So, pre 04, you still need fmbsh - or they will refuse a breakdown call and equally refuse a claim. Post 04 - you can re-instate it with a single dealer service.

I suspect , in reality, there has never been a claim under this warranty as yet, and probably never will be.

 

[television]

Hi Malcolm

Would the fitting of better designed liners to older cars, like my 2000 C class, following its professional wheel arch job, further inhibit future corrosion or is it unnecessary if the job was done well?

When I drove a Toyota (my previous car) if any part failed in sufficient numbers, the part was redesigned and replaced at the next failure. I remember the door lock surround and door lamp holder being replaced during the 17 years I owned my Celica GTI. Neither was the subject of a recall.

Does MB do this - fit uprated/redesigned components - outside of a recall, say at the next service?

REGARDS

Phil

It would help, but not very easy to do. The water from the rear wheels is forcing the water all around the rear wheel arch, the same water can only drain away or dry when it can, depending on how much mud is in the arch.

There is nothing made to improve this situation, and any home made remedy would have to be a perfect fit, or the situation would become worse. A thin rubber or plastic trim could be put around the edge on the lip and sealed with Waxoil, this would prevent rust from creeping around to the the outer paint on the sides of the car. I will take a look around to see if a suitable trim is made for something.

What I do from time to time is to cover the wheel with a water proof sheet and clean away the mud build up on the insides, it is a dirty job, but well worth doing.