Mercedes = Rust

[energysolutions]

Hello all,

I use a 2002 112 CDI Mercedes Vito van for work. I have had it since 2004 and put around 60000 miles on it (130000 in total)

I`ve had a good few niggling mechanical faults with it but nothing major. My friend however also had a 108 CDI which cost him a bomb. He replaced driveshafts (as have I, a common weakness), Turbo, Head and injectors costing around £2000, he then sold the van and then new owner had more trouble and spent another £2000 before giving up and scrapping it!

My main issue has been rust. It is now getting to the point that something needs done and I have had a friend who does bodywork look at it and he assures me that it will take a full respray as it is beyond "touching up". This is what I expected but it is quite expensive and I feel short changed by Mercedes as a 6 year old van should not look like a tea bag! I do not live near the sea, it was well looked after and has never been damaged. I know of several other owners who have had the same problem and my local Mercedes specialist has shown me several examples of cars and jeeps (even fresh £40000 ones!!!) which have rust issues

The rust is breaking out everywhere, with the drivers door being the worst area, but each panel is rusting quite severly somewhere. Even the panel at the front of the engine bay that the bonnet rests on (which is shielded by the bonnet) is rusted severly with no paint left on it at all. I feel now that it would very much hurt the sale of the van, I would change to a VW in an instant but current finances dictate that this wont happen till later in the year at the earliest, and by that time I reckon unless something is done there may only be the tyres and windows left!!!

A couple of pictures (below) may explain better.

In conclusion I am disappointed as I think the van is a good size (not too big or small) and is quite nippy (for a van), however this will undoubtedly be my last Mercedes as I have been well informed that the new generation that replaced my range are equally as poorly built and also rust!

I was looking around it today (in disgust) and wondered if it would be worth contacting Mercedes to see if they would contribute towards respraying costs as this is clearly a manufacturing fault????

Opinions??? Has anyone else had similar Mercedes problems?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Aussie Nick]

I think this issue of the rust with Benz is played to death on this forum. The issue seems to be that the rust problem is confined to Europe and mainly the UK.
In my view the problem is what the road authority sprays or spreads on the roads in winter rather than how Mercedes builds its cars and that the UK is a narrow island surrounded by lots of salty air.
I think it is easy to target the manufacturer. I haven't seen anybody here taking the issue up with the responsible road authority in the UK.
It is notable that the Mercs dont have a rust problem at all in AUS

 

[energysolutions]

I think this issue of the rust with Benz is played to death on this forum. The issue seems to be that the rust problem is confined to Europe and mainly the UK.
In my view the problem is what the road authority sprays or spreads on the roads in winter rather than how Mercedes builds its cars and that the UK is a narrow island surrounded by lots of salty air.
I think it is easy to target the manufacturer. I haven't seen anybody here taking the issue up with the responsible road authority in the UK.
It is notable that the Mercs dont have a rust problem at all in AUS

Sorry Nick but I strongly disagree.

I also own a Volkswagen Golf which is the same age, similar miles, kept in the same place and treated in exactly the same fashion as the Vito with ZERO rust, in fact the bodywork is excellent

My wife has a Peugeot which is older (2001) and has also been treated/kept in the same manner and it too shows no rust, so in theory, a crappy French hatchback is better built than a supposedly premium brand German workhorse?

No other brand (car or van) that I am aware of has such rust issues that as you rightly state "has been done to death on this forum", so how come they have to use the same salty UK roads as Mercedes and dont rust?

Some more pictures:

 

[nickcc101]

Had a Ford Focus, Rover, VW, BMW all over last 10 years. None had rust problems but my W203 C180 has rust on rear wheel arches, nsr door and bonnet. Local Council rarely use salt or grit in my area.

 

[energysolutions]

Had a Ford Focus, Rover, VW, BMW all over last 10 years. None had rust problems but my W203 C180 has rust on rear wheel arches, nsr door and bonnet. Local Council rarely use salt or grit in my area.

Salt is rarely used around here too, but in any case no matter how much/little is applied no other brand (which ultimately drive on the same roads) are rotting away like Mercedes so what are they doing differently?

I think manufacturing processes and matierals are to blame here - simply put Mercedes bodywork is not what it used to be and I can no longer class them as a "premium" brand

These problems are doing Mercedes untold harm, EVERYONE I know who has had a Vito (even MK2s) swears they will never have another for a multitude of reasons but mostly for - you`ve guessed it - rust.

By contrast this has played right into Volkswagens hands and they are doing great business - one of their salesmen recently told me that they no longer offer 0% finance "because they dont have to"

Good products sell themselves, something Mercedes would do well to remember for at this point their reputation is fast going down the pan and once lost it will be very difficult to regain

 

[Xtractorfan]

I think this issue of the rust with Benz is played to death on this forum. The issue seems to be that the rust problem is confined to Europe and mainly the UK.
In my view the problem is what the road authority sprays or spreads on the roads in winter rather than how Mercedes builds its cars and that the UK is a narrow island surrounded by lots of salty air.
I think it is easy to target the manufacturer. I haven't seen anybody here taking the issue up with the responsible road authority in the UK.
It is notable that the Mercs dont have a rust problem at all in AUS

Jeez mate u sure like your mercs.. There is a problem with merc paint and sealers ..or lack of the same.. a stone chip on a merc is right thru to the metal, other cars thru to the undercoat / primer. The underwing sealing ..around the wheel arch, is basically non existant, I remember doing a nearly new 190E many years ago, and the new wing was always done with with a brush on sealer..around the wheel arch inner lip..then oversprayed with a quality stone chip on the outer lip as well, this was in a way done to replicate the original wing and of course to maintain and restore the car to its fomer glory.. any mercs I have done since havent had this treatment, tho I do still use the spray on stone chip.. My humble opinion would be that someone has missed the first anti rust primer or phospheric dip process and therin lies the problem..cos as we all know tis not the lacquer or paint that provides the anti rust coat but the first primer/sealer which is bonded to the metal that stops the rust process beginning.. actually lacquer and paint coats are in essence porous and allow minute moisture droplets thru the paint...

 

[Juddian]

Keep the rust issue discussed openly, don't see 10 year old hyundai's riddled all around the extremities.

We've got someone on here has found rust on an R class for pete's sake.

MB reps must occasionally browse these forums, i say let 'em know thats its not forgotten or forgiven, and we'll believe 03 is the magic year when they're 10 years old and rust free, just like a hyundai.

I will say one thing in defence, not of MB, but of many makers, and that is owners neglect.
I've bought dozens of cars over the years and not one was cleaned out under the wheelarches with years of mud and salty filth sitting in recesses for eternity.
I know i baby my vehicles, probably too much, but my cars are hosed down regularly underneath to help prevent this very problem.

Having said that, if other cars can stand the neglect, then a quality engineered vehicle certainly should.

 

[The German Flower Pot]

all 3 of my w124 couper (94, 95 & 96) have all had bad rust on the whole of the front wings

my mate has had 2 clks and both times has had to remove the boot, remove part where the number plate sits and fill it and re spray it

they have some vey bad weak rust points which is not good

ive had 3 clios and none have rusted at all anywhere and they were 91, 92 & 97

 

[energysolutions]

Keep the rust issue discussed openly, don't see 10 year old hyundai's riddled all around the extremities.

We've got someone on here has found rust on an R class for pete's sake.

MB reps must occasionally browse these forums, i say let 'em know thats its not forgotten or forgiven, and we'll believe 03 is the magic year when they're 10 years old and rust free, just like a hyundai.

I will say one thing in defence, not of MB, but of many makers, and that is owners neglect.
I've bought dozens of cars over the years and not one was cleaned out under the wheelarches with years of mud and salty filth sitting in recesses for eternity.
I know i baby my vehicles, probably too much, but my cars are hosed down regularly underneath to help prevent this very problem.

Having said that, if other cars can stand the neglect, then a quality engineered vehicle certainly should.

Jeez mate u sure like your mercs.. There is a problem with merc paint and sealers ..or lack of the same.. a stone chip on a merc is right thru to the metal, other cars thru to the undercoat / primer. The underwing sealing ..around the wheel arch, is basically non existant, I remember doing a nearly new 190E many years ago, and the new wing was always done with with a brush on sealer..around the wheel arch inner lip..then oversprayed with a quality stone chip on the outer lip as well, this was in a way done to replicate the original wing and of course to maintain and restore the car to its fomer glory.. any mercs I have done since havent had this treatment, tho I do still use the spray on stone chip.. My humble opinion would be that someone has missed the first anti rust primer or phospheric dip process and therin lies the problem..cos as we all know tis not the lacquer or paint that provides the anti rust coat but the first primer/sealer which is bonded to the metal that stops the rust process beginning.. actually lacquer and paint coats are in essence porous and allow minute moisture droplets thru the paint...

Couldnt have put it better myself lads

Nail on head.

 

[energysolutions]

all 3 of my w124 couper (94, 95 & 96) have all had bad rust on the whole of the front wings

my mate has had 2 clks and both times has had to remove the boot, remove part where the number plate sits and fill it and re spray it

they have some vey bad weak rust points which is not good

ive had 3 clios and none have rusted at all anywhere and they were 91, 92 & 97

I assume these rust free Clios were used on the same salty UK roads that your rusty Mercedes was used on?

I rest my case.

 

[keith100]

"Aluminium and plastics are the two other lightweight materials used by Mercedes-Benz where they offer the most advantages. Aluminium components in the new 2008 C-Class include:

* the front wings
* the front-end module member and crash boxes
* the parcel shelf panel in the rear
* the door modules.
* The spare wheel recess is of plastic."

Well, those bits should be OK then.

 

[Aussie Nick]

That's good . I like to hear good healthy debate.This is one of the better threads on Rust because there was good evidence and comparison. Two issues still remain.

1. Why are the cars in Aus. Rust free?

2.Why are the Dissenters still members of the forum? (and I am not trying to be sarcastic or smart)

 

[JEZ.S320L]

That's good . I like to hear good healthy debate.This is one of the better threads on Rust because there was good evidence and comparison. Two issues still remain.

1. Why are the cars in Aus. Rust free?

2.Why are the Dissenters still members of the forum? (and I am not trying to be sarcastic or smart)

1. Don't know

2. In the same way that 'New Labour' Dissenters, remain members of the Labour Party.

 

[WelshMerc78]

Rust company

Is this any good?

http://www.rustmaster.co.uk/index_32017.htm

Jeff

 

[JEZ.S320L]

Is this any good?

http://www.rustmaster.co.uk/index_32017.htm

Jeff

Whatever happened to the 'Ziebart' anti-rust process?

I remember having a new car treated with it.

 

[Juddian]

That's good . I like to hear good healthy debate.This is one of the better threads on Rust because there was good evidence and comparison. Two issues still remain.

1. Why are the cars in Aus. Rust free?

2.Why are the Dissenters still members of the forum? (and I am not trying to be sarcastic or smart)

1. Fairly obvious, the non use (i presume) of thousands of tons of rock salt at the first sign of an air frost.
Having said that if a very cheap Korean car or indeed many others can manage to make their cars costing probably a third of an equivelent MB last for at least 10 years before corrosion becomes a problem, then MB should have been easily capable of showing them real quality, and longevity.

2. That question could probably provide more answers than you could shake a stick at.
For me, i like individuality in cars as well as people.
I hate euroboxes with a vengeance, thats probably why i will not change my 124 coupe for a later saloon, or indeed the later coupe's tempting though some can be.

I suppose the 124 is the last MB of E class or smaller that was totally individual and designed along the old MB lines. Many later models seem so mainstream, and designed to fit in with other makers efforts.

I love the way my car drives, effortlessly smooth and comfortable, but at the slightest opportunity, and sharp depressing of the throttle an overtaking acceleration that can shame many sporting cars is available, but all done quietly with no drama at all. And very few gearbox's as smooth and pleasant.
Maybe thats why i keep having second thoughts about changing.
I did consider changing to a W215 cl500, but was extremely disappointed at the aluminium corrosion i found in a low mileage model i think was 3 years old at the time, so despite to my eyes being one of the most beautiful cars of the last 20 years, i will not be owning one.

I do think a lot about changing cars, i'm very tempted by the Legacy 3.0R in saloon form, similarly the new shape Dodge charger, not much else TBH.

But when i've washed and polished my lovely car, which i shall do momentarily, i see the lovely graceful and totally unique lines of the body, the highly polished wood contrasted with the mushroom leather, and it still melts the heart.

The badge TBH means very little to me, it could well be made anywhere with any badge and it would still be the same unique vehicle.

Thats why i'm still here.


Thought provoking question though Nick.

 

[energysolutions]

That's good . I like to hear good healthy debate.This is one of the better threads on Rust because there was good evidence and comparison. Two issues still remain.

1. Why are the cars in Aus. Rust free?

2.Why are the Dissenters still members of the forum? (and I am not trying to be sarcastic or smart)

1, Unfortunately I am not an authority on Austrailian vehicles of any description as I have never been to Austrailia (I hope this will change at some point though) or viewed any vehicles from there - I can however offer some insight into UK Vehicles as I have owned several - and of the brands I have had contact with ONLY Mercedes have rusted

2, I am a member of this forum because, at this point in time, I am an (unhappy) owner of a Mercedes - I believe that justifies my membership. However after this expierence of Mercedes quality (or lack of it) there is a day coming when I will no longer own a Mercedes, nor will I ever be liable to again


Indeed I am a "dissenter" - I believe I have earned that right by purchasing an expensive product that clearly has not justified its premium price tag

I cant help but feel that in your opinion if a problem does not appear in Austrailia then it does not appear full stop (and I am not trying to be sarcastic or smart)

 

[Aussie Nick]

[I cant help but feel that in your opinion if a problem does not appear in Austrailia then it does not appear full stop (and I am not trying to be sarcastic or smart)[/QUOTE]

That is not what I said, and it was obvious even if you read my posts with one eye shut.

Your comment is a nonsense.

Perhaps you should consider the previous member's post and try to answer the question constructively without drawing emotions into play.

 

[energysolutions]

1. Fairly obvious, the non use (i presume) of thousands of tons of rock salt at the first sign of an air frost.
Having said that if a very cheap Korean car or indeed many others can manage to make their cars costing probably a third of an equivelent MB last for at least 10 years before corrosion becomes a problem, then MB should have been easily capable of showing them real quality, and longevity.

2. That question could probably provide more answers than you could shake a stick at.
For me, i like individuality in cars as well as people.
I hate euroboxes with a vengeance, thats probably why i will not change my 124 coupe for a later saloon, or indeed the later coupe's tempting though some can be.

I suppose the 124 is the last MB of E class or smaller that was totally individual and designed along the old MB lines. Many later models seem so mainstream, and designed to fit in with other makers efforts.

I love the way my car drives, effortlessly smooth and comfortable, but at the slightest opportunity, and sharp depressing of the throttle an overtaking acceleration that can shame many sporting cars is available, but all done quietly with no drama at all. And very few gearbox's as smooth and pleasant.
Maybe thats why i keep having second thoughts about changing.
I did consider changing to a W215 cl500, but was extremely disappointed at the aluminium corrosion i found in a low mileage model i think was 3 years old at the time, so despite to my eyes being one of the most beautiful cars of the last 20 years, i will not be owning one.

I do think a lot about changing cars, i'm very tempted by the Legacy 3.0R in saloon form, similarly the new shape Dodge charger, not much else TBH.

But when i've washed and polished my lovely car, which i shall do momentarily, i see the lovely graceful and totally unique lines of the body, the highly polished wood contrasted with the mushroom leather, and it still melts the heart.

The badge TBH means very little to me, it could well be made anywhere with any badge and it would still be the same unique vehicle.

Thats why i'm still here.


Thought provoking question though Nick.

Point 1, Couldnt have put it better myself - If you purchase a premium brand, particulary one best known for reliability/build - then it is not unreasonable to expect premium quality

Point 2, You clearly love Mercedes for the reasons outlined, I however purchased into the Mercedes family for different reasons, I wanted a reliable workhorse that was built to last - and mostly this has been the case except for the bodywork, which is clearly sub standard even if compared to the cheapest, most basic brands.

That is not what I said, and it was obvious even if you read my posts with one eye shut.

Your comment is a nonsense.

Perhaps you should consider the previous member's post and try to answer the question constructively without drawing emotions into play.

I believe my comment is valid

You keep coming back to the fact that Mercedes are rust free (which is the way it should be) in Austrailia and that is indeed a valid point which I cannot dispute - If only I lived there I wouldnt have a problem - but I dont

If any company sell their products in a country then surely there is a duty for them to ensure that product is fit for purpose - after all the climate + salty roads are not a new phenomenon for the UK - something that other less expensive brands seem to have researched and developed more successfully.

Remember my case is not unique, as someone previously mentioned this subject "has been done to death on this forum" - that surely points to an inherent problem which you are reluctant to admit exists

 

[keith100]

That's good . I like to hear good healthy debate.This is one of the better threads on Rust because there was good evidence and comparison. Two issues still remain.

1. Why are the cars in Aus. Rust free?

2. Why are the Dissenters still members of the forum? (and I am not trying to be sarcastic or smart)

Hi Nick,

1. I reckon your winter temp. of 13C might most of the answer.

Rust is pretty well known in N/A as well as Europe and the UK. So they did rust in their biggest markets.

2. I bought a new, and first, MB in 07, hoping Deiter had shaken MB up after its "slumpf under Schremfe"(sp?) and that their new model would be exemplary. And even rusty ones (someone else's!) were great to drive.