2011 W221 S350 CDI intermittent non-starting issue

[Botus]

in fimasri's post he says it all went away with enough power in the battery - its very common low voltage throws a modern car in a tail spin

have you added any support to yours to see if it behaves?

and not helping all the way in this whole thread - there was not one bit of diagnostics, from kit that is either genuine merc of gives exactly the same messages merc kits kicks out - its like painting by numbers but using the wrong instruction set for that drawing - you will end up with meaningless gibberish that helps no body

what kind of grammar was the 10 pic post throwing out - utter horse xxxx

 

[krsebest]

This post hasn't been commented on for a while, but hope some people still read it. I have the same issue, in fact I have been living with it for 3 years now, and managed to make some observations which might help some expert to provide a guess on what could be causing this?

Sidenote: when the car turns on ok (and it always does eventually, but sometimes after an hour, sometimes after second try), all errors disappear, and drives smoothly as it should.

Symptoms:
-Ignition key turned to second position (just before turning the engine on), turning further wouldn't turn the engine on, not even a crank comes out.
-On the dash 2 errors come up: Run flat inoperative, ESP Inoperative
-The engine cooler temperature doesnt move at all on the dash (even if the car has been running before and I am 100% sure it would be over 60-80C
-The little coil sign (pre-ignition glow thingy) doesn't show up at all on the dash, even if the engine is completely cold
-I can't hear the hissing sound of the compressor (for air suspension)
=Reading errors out, 2 peding one shows up: P0113 - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1, P00AD Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1

I also figured that it has to do something with the battery voltage, as:
- It always happens during winter and cold periods. I don't think I have seen it in summer
- It very rarely occurs after the car has been previously running and warm. Note that voltage is always higher after an extended run (battery more charged)
- When my battery was depleted (below 12V), it took me an hour to start the car, turning the key back and forth, praying, etc. When I changed to a fully charged battery, the error may come up, but I can turn the engine on after trying for 2-3 times
- I once also tried to jack the car up from a running car after 20 minutes of failure to start it on its own, the car instantly started, error was not showing up at all

Now the issue is that even with a brand new, fully charge 95Ah AGM battery, I do get this error and intermittent non-start issue.

Also to note:
-When the key is turned to position 2, a lot of consumers are turned on. Air suspension compressor would start, pre-ignition glow, aircon air, etc. I can see that the battery at this point (even before trying to crank the engine on) drops about 0.5volts. Fully charge brand new battery installed shows only 12.5V, and once I turn the key twice, that 12.5 drops to 12.0
-It has happened a few times, that I turn key to position 2, I do see the glow plug show up for a half sec/air suspension starting to hiss, than suddenlly these cut off, the error message appears on the dash and I can be sure that I won't be able to turn the car on at that point.

So could this be a short-circuit or something like that caused by something that's turned on at ignition position 2? And voltage drops, some module malfunctions and hence errors show up/car doesnt start?

Really appreciate even guesses.

 

[M2UBR]

This post hasn't been commented on for a while, but hope some people still read it. I have the same issue, in fact I have been living with it for 3 years now, and managed to make some observations which might help some expert to provide a guess on what could be causing this?

Sidenote: when the car turns on ok (and it always does eventually, but sometimes after an hour, sometimes after second try), all errors disappear, and drives smoothly as it should.

Symptoms:
-Ignition key turned to second position (just before turning the engine on), turning further wouldn't turn the engine on, not even a crank comes out.
-On the dash 2 errors come up: Run flat inoperative, ESP Inoperative
-The engine cooler temperature doesnt move at all on the dash (even if the car has been running before and I am 100% sure it would be over 60-80C
-The little coil sign (pre-ignition glow thingy) doesn't show up at all on the dash, even if the engine is completely cold
-I can't hear the hissing sound of the compressor (for air suspension)
=Reading errors out, 2 peding one shows up: P0113 - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1, P00AD Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1

I also figured that it has to do something with the battery voltage, as:
- It always happens during winter and cold periods. I don't think I have seen it in summer
- It very rarely occurs after the car has been previously running and warm. Note that voltage is always higher after an extended run (battery more charged)
- When my battery was depleted (below 12V), it took me an hour to start the car, turning the key back and forth, praying, etc. When I changed to a fully charged battery, the error may come up, but I can turn the engine on after trying for 2-3 times
- I once also tried to jack the car up from a running car after 20 minutes of failure to start it on its own, the car instantly started, error was not showing up at all

Now the issue is that even with a brand new, fully charge 95Ah AGM battery, I do get this error and intermittent non-start issue.

Also to note:
-When the key is turned to position 2, a lot of consumers are turned on. Air suspension compressor would start, pre-ignition glow, aircon air, etc. I can see that the battery at this point (even before trying to crank the engine on) drops about 0.5volts. Fully charge brand new battery installed shows only 12.5V, and once I turn the key twice, that 12.5 drops to 12.0
-It has happened a few times, that I turn key to position 2, I do see the glow plug show up for a half sec/air suspension starting to hiss, than suddenlly these cut off, the error message appears on the dash and I can be sure that I won't be able to turn the car on at that point.

So could this be a short-circuit or something like that caused by something that's turned on at ignition position 2? And voltage drops, some module malfunctions and hence errors show up/car doesnt start?

Really appreciate even guesses.

Hi

My issues were the same non start coil light not coming in and run flat/ esp messages on screen when plugged in various diagnostics it used to come back with various CAN faults and also hot air mass fil and air temp sensor faults just like yours, I persisted with the issue as no one could find the fault but as it would start eventually I just left it alone
My car has a new main and small battery too no charging issues at all, randomly my faults all disappeared and haven’t returned and starts all the time everytime, the only issue I still have is the stop start does not work I found a wire that had broken off that goes from the battery sensor on the main battery going towards the engine bay I haven’t been able to trace where this wire goes to so it is still not connected if this has something to do with the non start fault I don’t know I do have this fault code now regarding the wire but did not have it before so check the wires running off the battery sensor a blue and white wire will run to the rear from under the windscreen the other a red one is the one to check worth a shot as it worked on my car again if that was or wasn’t the fault I don’t know but I’m not bothered as it’s gone I hope this helps

 

[krsebest]

Hi

My issues were the same non start coil light not coming in and run flat/ esp messages on screen when plugged in various diagnostics it used to come back with various CAN faults and also hot air mass fil and air temp sensor faults just like yours, I persisted with the issue as no one could find the fault but as it would start eventually I just left it alone
My car has a new main and small battery too no charging issues at all, randomly my faults all disappeared and haven’t returned and starts all the time everytime, the only issue I still have is the stop start does not work I found a wire that had broken off that goes from the battery sensor on the main battery going towards the engine bay I haven’t been able to trace where this wire goes to so it is still not connected if this has something to do with the non start fault I don’t know I do have this fault code now regarding the wire but did not have it before so check the wires running off the battery sensor a blue and white wire will run to the rear from under the windscreen the other a red one is the one to check worth a shot as it worked on my car again if that was or wasn’t the fault I don’t know but I’m not bothered as it’s gone I hope this helps

Thanks for the response! Glad your errors went away!

I have only changed the main battery. Wonder if the small one could be the issue. Will also check the wires, thanks for the suggestion!

 

[DSK]

I have another thread and have the same issue with the stability warning and no crank/start. If the car is going to start, there are no warnings on the dash. If the car is not going to start, I get the stability inoperative warning when the ignition is on.

When scanned there were cabus/comms historic events but nothing concrete to go on. It’s had a new starter relay and genuine battery but, the fault still exists.

I also have a wet passenger footwell which could be related or separate. Mine goes back to the so called specialists mid Jan. I will report back in due course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[krsebest]

I have another thread and have the same issue with the stability warning and no crank/start. If the car is going to start, there are no warnings on the dash. If the car is not going to start, I get the stability inoperative warning when the ignition is on.

When scanned there were cabus/comms historic events but nothing concrete to go on. It’s had a new starter relay and genuine battery but, the fault still exists.

I also have a wet passenger footwell which could be related or separate. Mine goes back to the so called specialists mid Jan. I will report back in due course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, please do report back if you manage to figure out...

Regarding we footwell - have you checked that the bottom of the air intake bit for the aircon is not blocked and water didn't accumulate there? I once had that issue, in fact, water was flooding in once on my wife's legs while going steeply uphill Solution is pretty simple, if there is water still in the air intake bit (towards the passanger comparment from the engine, within the engine bay), just put your finger at the bottom and remove the dirt. Also worth checking for blockage on two sides of the windscreen drains, the middle drain from the windscreen, and the drain within the hood (which you can access from below once you open it up)

 

[M2UBR]

Thanks for the response! Glad your errors went away!

I have only changed the main battery. Wonder if the small one could be the issue. Will also check the wires, thanks for the suggestion!

I have another thread and have the same issue with the stability warning and no crank/start. If the car is going to start, there are no warnings on the dash. If the car is not going to start, I get the stability inoperative warning when the ignition is on.

When scanned there were cabus/comms historic events but nothing concrete to go on. It’s had a new starter relay and genuine battery but, the fault still exists.

I also have a wet passenger footwell which could be related or separate. Mine goes back to the so called specialists mid Jan. I will report back in due course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi I’d check ur CANBUS wiring if the carpet is wet it could be the cause as the CANBUS plugs are in the footwell the CANBUS comms not sending authorisation causes the non start issue from what I can see as when mine had the fault these are the codes it used to throw up everytime and when it did run they disappeared