722.9 Transmission Fluid Change Questions

[Jim2]

I think the pump maintains fluid pressure when the engine is off in a stop/start situation.
The pump is quite small -- maybe 4 inches X 3 inches.
It has to be removed to gain access to the TC drain bolt.
Here is a photo of the pump:-

This is the view you will see from under the car.

And this is the pump viewed from the side that connects to the gearbox.
Note the 2 black pipes. They are identical so it doesn't matter if they get mixed up.
They can come away with the pump or stay connected to the gearbox or else fall into the old ATF drain pan.

Make sure they are in-situ when you are refitting the pump.

Yes, Steve, as they say " One pic is worth 1'000 word's " I'd say that you are right about the Stop / Start function of the pump. That will simplify matter's, for sure if the TC has a drain plug., and reduce costs as well. Now I've sent an Email to Mercedes & Smart asking them if the kit ( the one that you posted) is suitable for my EcoStop /Start Merc, and maybe they will provide an explanation as to what and why there are stop/ start and non stop /start kits. Because,as far as I can see, all the MB part Nrs are the same. So maybe something to do with the Pump in your Pics? I'd hate to get it wrong and face catastrophic destruction later on, it being something as important as oil and filter related.
Thanks again Steve, It's appreciated.
BTW, I've attached a pic of the two different sumps used in the 722.9 transmissions. Might be useful for you or anyone else on the Forum who is thinking about a trans ATF change.

 

[steveq]

I think the only difference between the two kits is that the one for cars with stop/start has a green stand up pipe (slightly shorter than the white one) and it includes the TC drain bolt. It is also slightly more expensive too but I presume that is because of the TC drain bolt inclusion.

To me, the inclusion of the TC drain bolt in the standard service kit implies that all 7g+ gearboxes actually have a TC drain bolt.

 

[Jim2]

I think the only difference between the two kits is that the one for cars with stop/start has a green stand up pipe (slightly shorter than the white one) and it includes the TC drain bolt. It is also slightly more expensive too but I presume that is because of the TC drain bolt inclusion.

To me, the inclusion of the TC drain bolt in the standard service kit implies that all 7g+ gearboxes actually have a TC drain bolt.

Yes, I've been thinking about it too, and I'd say that you are right. The main differences seem to be the changed sump, ( Hence the different sized / colored stand pipe ) and uses a different oil. But the bolts, rubber gasket and Filter remain the same. Because if you look for say the individual part ( filter ) you don't find any restrictions like "Only for Stop / Start Vehicles ". that I can find anyhow..This restriction only seem's to apply to kits. Have a look at the pic I uploaded, It shows the two types side by side, with and without the stop / start.
Thanks again Steve.

 

[steveq]

The picture you uploaded is confusing.
On one item it says to use 236.15 spec ATF and 7g Tronic+ and the other item says for use with stop/start and 7g Tronic+?
Same thing in my book.

Here is the link from MB Newcastle:-
For 7G+ (post 2011):-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-...it-2011-NEW-/131860710362?hash=item1eb382c3da

and for 7G up to 2011 taking the red 236.14 spec ATF:-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-...ter-Kit-NEW-/112885435421?hash=item1a487f0c1d

 

[Jim2]

Y

The picture you uploaded is confusing.
On one item it says to use 236.15 spec ATF and 7g Tronic+ and the other item says for use with stop/start and 7g Tronic+?
Same thing in my book.

Here is the link from MB Newcastle:-
For 7G+ (post 2011):-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-...it-2011-NEW-/131860710362?hash=item1eb382c3da

and for 7G up to 2011 taking the red 236.14 spec ATF:-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-...ter-Kit-NEW-/112885435421?hash=item1a487f0c1d

Yes, it's a bit confusing ( for me at least ). Those two attachments came from the Meyle website, and I was using them to illustrate my query. But basically, anything from 2011 onwards and which takes the blue transmission fluid, 236.15 is stop /start by definition, and that's what to watch out for.
Thanks for clarifying it Steve.

 

[Exp21]

Hi everyone. I have to do the oil change to a 2012 w204, 7g+. In WIS I read to fill with 6 liters, start the engine, let it warm up and then turn it off and let it cool down. Then add another 4 liters "after the transmission and converter have been replaced". Does it mean that I have to skip this passage if in my case is only a simple oil change? I see many people using about 9 liters, but WIS talks about 9 liters as "first filling" with dry AT. A simple oil change should be of 6 liters? In fact Febi kit for oil change contains exactly 6 liters. If anyone could help me, would be much appreciated. Thank you

 

[steveq]

6 litres will exclude draining the Torque Converter.

If you want to do the job properly, you should drain the sump and the TC.
Refilling will take 9 litres.
You will need 10 litres as you pump in too much and let the excess come out.

I have read that main dealers only drain and refill the sump and don't go near the TC -- that is rumour though and I don't know for sure.
If that is true though, that is only doing half the job. There is a lot of old ATF in the TC and that should be replaced as well.

 

[Exp21]

I perfectly agree with you and thank you. In fact I was checking on Wis the correct procedure for my model, but that additional step of adding 4 liters after the initial 6 liters was probably badly translated from german, it seems you must add the 4 liters only if you have replaced the entire transmission. But probably it's a bad translation

 

[Jim2]

Hi everyone. I have to do the oil change to a 2012 w204, 7g+. In WIS I read to fill with 6 liters, start the engine, let it warm up and then turn it off and let it cool down. Then add another 4 liters "after the transmission and converter have been replaced". Does it mean that I have to skip this passage if in my case is only a simple oil change? I see many people using about 9 liters, but WIS talks about 9 liters as "first filling" with dry AT. A simple oil change should be of 6 liters? In fact Febi kit for oil change contains exactly 6 liters. If anyone could help me, would be much appreciated. Thank you

Well, I changed the oil and filter inc TC, in my 2014 E 220 w212 about a month ago, as follows: Open drain plug, and allow out what ever comes out ( NB, its essential that you have a big enough basin to catch everything that comes out min 14-16 Ltrs capacity, so you will know exactly how much to replace.) Push the oil level sleeve off its base to allow the sump to fully drain ( as much as possible ) remove sump and filter ; Remove auxiliary electric pump., locate TC stud and allow the TC to drain. While its draining, prepare sump for refitting, clean and replace magnets, fit new gacket in situ ( I use black plastic adhesive tape to secure the gasket to the pan.) Fit the new filter in place, refit the sump, and torque up the sump bolts. Refit the electric pump.
Next, measure the drained ATF into containers ( I got 9 ltres from mine) after pumping 6 ltres back in, I started the engine, and after running it for a minute or two, ( not more ) I pumped in the remaining 3 ltrs. While it was running, I cycled through all the gears, in both comfort and sports mode, through all the gears.
Then with the engine still running, I waited until the temp was at 45c exactly, and opened the release tap on the drain- fill pipe, and allowed out the excess. Once that had drained, I shut off the tap, replaced it with the sump stud, and that was it, job done. ( remember that the engine has to remain running with transmission in "P" at all times, and brakes on., Check for leaks etc, replace undershields etc. Test Drive.
For the 722.6 5speed trans, its possibe to do just an oil change, without changing the filter, but for the 722.9 trans, you will have to remove the sump and Electric pump to drain the TC, So you may as well replace the filter as well at the same time.

 

[Exp21]

Thank you, really, for the time of writing all this. Perfect description. So while I wait the oil to reach 45 Celsius brake has to be always pressed? Thanks again it seems now clear to me that draining all properly, about 9 liters will come out

 

[Jim2]

Thank you, really, for the time of writing all this. Perfect description. So while I wait the oil to reach 45 Celsius brake has to be always pressed? Thanks again it seems now clear to me that draining all properly, about 9 liters will come out

Sorry I should have made myself a bit clearer...From start to finish the hand / foot brake has to be on. and trans mission in "P". ( except when cycling through the gears obviously) And when doing the level check @ 45c, engine running and trans in "P" also. Good Luck, and let us know how you get on, OK? (And another thing I forgot to mention, the vehicle has to be 100% horizontal, on both planes.)

 

[steveq]

Good write-up.
Well done.

I am confused when you say :- "I use black plastic adhesive tape to secure the gasket to the pan."?
The gasket just fits onto the pan and is held in place when the sump is refitted.
Is there not a risk that some of the tape could find its way onto the auto-box and all the valves, etc.?

The only other item I would add is that the sump bolts are single-use stretch bolts that have to be replaced. The sump bolt torque settings are quite low -- I had to buy a low range torque wrench for the job.

 

[Exp21]

Sorry I should have made myself a bit clearer...From start to finish the hand / foot brake has to be on. and trans mission in "P". ( except when cycling through the gears obviously) And when doing the level check @ 45c, engine running and trans in "P" also. Good Luck, and let us know how you get on, OK? (And another thing I forgot to mention, the vehicle has to be 100% horizontal, on both planes.)

Thank you, really. Of course I'll keep posted
All the best

 

[Jim2]

Good write-up.
Well done.

I am confused when you say :- "I use black plastic adhesive tape to secure the gasket to the pan."?
The gasket just fits onto the pan and is held in place when the sump is refitted.
Is there not a risk that some of the tape could find its way onto the auto-box and all the valves, etc.?

The only other item I would add is that the sump bolts are single-use stretch bolts that have to be replaced. The sump bolt torque settings are quite low -- I had to buy a low range torque wrench for the job.

The plastic tape is used only on the external part....its just an added "insurance" if you like to keep the gasket firmly in place while maneuvering the sump up in place on the transmission body. See the link from my previous post.

https://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?attachments/mb-atf-change-water-drops-20210826_123533_moment-xyz-jpg.70341/

Yes, I used new stretch bolts this time, ( they came as part of the MAYLE kit ) but in the past, I've reused the old bolts,,just gave them a good wire brushig first And you are right about the Torque settings,,,,,,I had to buy a low reading Torque Spanner, with Inch / pound settings, translated to Metric.

 

[Exp21]

I was thinking of using Fuchs oil, years ago a technician told me that it could heal the little jerks in low gears' shifts. But Meyle provides an handy kit with oil. Do you think Fuchs it's way superior? Thank you

 

[steveq]

I used Fuchs ATF when I did mine. Fuchs were involved with MB on the design of the 236.15 fluid for use in the 722.9 gearbox.
That said, if the Meyle fluid is approved to the 236.15 spec then it must be OK.

 

[Gazwould]

Fuchs is going to be the real deal as they along with Shell and Afton co-developed the blue MB 236.15 .

Fuch is first engine fill and gearbox and axle fluids for many makes .

236.15 approved and make niche racing oils including a dpf friendly C3 racing oil .

 

[Exp21]

Thank you I use the Titan Pro Flex 23 for the engine. I'll use Fuchs also for 7g+ now that you confirm what I already thought. Thanks

 

[Wighty]

I was thinking of using Fuchs oil, years ago a technician told me that it could heal the little jerks in low gears' shifts. But Meyle provides an handy kit with oil. Do you think Fuchs it's way superior? Thank you

I’ve always used Fuchs ATF as well on both cars , probably 3 changes on each ?

 

[steveq]

Fuchs is going to be the real deal as they along with Shell and Afton co-developed the blue MB 236.15 .

Fuch is first engine fill and gearbox and axle fluids for many makes .

236.15 approved and make niche racing oils including a dpf friendly C3 racing oil .

And I thought you were an advocate for non-branded cheaper oils?