A few words of warning about Insurance and Repairs

[Benzworx]

Delete it then, I have NO axe to grind, with any insurance company - I have never been bitten (many have though)just wanted to pass on some info - I did that...just got shot down (with some general - no knowledge cr@p comments), pretty poor really IMHO, so there you go - you can have all my experience, I am however only replying with industry info on a private message.

Why give out further info to be shot down again - perhaps you should re-examine the replies of forum members, to understand where I am at i.e. "you don't know what you are talking about" or "that is total cr@p" - nothing less than rude.

You say in your first qoute about Filler being used in repairs and a road death waitng to happen !,
Job = MB specialist (my own company)
Exp 35 years in the motor trade, serving 4 year apprentise in a bodyshop
3 years in motor mechanics with honours.
Brought up with cars my father owned 4 dealerships
have worked for top restoration companies and restored multi million pound classics.

Never in this past or present time have I heard of anyone having a serious road accident or being killed or seriously hurt as a result of body filler beng used or the use of pattern parts !

 

[Shezbo]

You say in your first qoute about Filler being used in repairs and a road death waitng to happen !,
Job = MB specialist (my own company)
Exp 35 years in the motor trade, serving 4 year apprentise in a bodyshop
3 years in motor mechanics with honours.
Brought up with cars my father owned 4 dealerships
have worked for top restoration companies and restored multi million pound classics.

Never in this past or present time have I heard of anyone having a serious road accident or being killed or seriously hurt as a result of body filler beng used or the use of pattern parts !

You also know that insurers have a repair not replace policy, if they do replace a panel then many ARE using non OE and "green parts" (second hand parts to repair your P&J!)

All I am saying that a car repaired - not to VM spec, will NOT perform in another accident like it was when it was built, the ones the above repair methods - insurers are choosing is only based on cost i.e. cheap as possible?

I know that your best repairs are completed when you bolt a wing, door, bonnet and front bumper and fit new genuine parts. All the parts fit and the car is as safe as it was pre accident... unfortunately insurers are choosing the repair method for you.

I don't think the Euro ENCAP safety rating standard has ever officially crashed a car with the combination of filler, non OE or green parts....as most customers don't know this type of thing is going on..it IS worth raising.

However I do agree that for some repairs a skim of filler, will be absoultely fine and I am sure this is the type of work you refer to

 

[d215yq]

You also know that insurers have a repair not replace policy, if they do replace a panel then many ARE using non OE and "green parts" (second hand parts to repair your P&J!)

So please tell me this...if i have a 5yr old car then every panel on it is 5 years old or "second hand"...so if i then replace some panels with "second hand" parts from a similar 5 year old car how the hell am I making it unsafe?

Similarly as long as non-OEM parts are appropriate for the vehicle why should this affect safety.

I concede that if your P+J is important you may not want second hand/non OEM bodywork for fit and finish reasons (although surely the skill of the bodyshop is a more important factor in ensuring this, as testament to the real world replies on here). Regardless, fit and finish is NOT a safety concern so please stop this nonsense that we are all being endangered by these "bad" insurance companies and we shouldn't be getting the best deal.

It's stuff like this that is why rip-off britain exists...well meaning but factually inaccurate/wholly exaggerated scaremongering and the ridiculous implication that the price you pay is some intrinsic component of the quality you receive

 

[drmw]

So please tell me this...if i have a 5yr old car then every panel on it is 5 years old or "second hand"...so if i then replace some panels with "second hand" parts from a similar 5 year old car how the hell am I making it unsafe?

Similarly as long as non-OEM parts are appropriate for the vehicle why should this affect safety.

I concede that if your P+J is important you may not want second hand/non OEM bodywork for fit and finish reasons (although surely the skill of the bodyshop is a more important factor in ensuring this, as testament to the real world replies on here). Regardless, fit and finish is NOT a safety concern so please stop this nonsense that we are all being endangered by these "bad" insurance companies and we shouldn't be getting the best deal.

It's stuff like this that is why rip-off britain exists...well meaning but factually inaccurate/wholly exaggerated scaremongering and the ridiculous implication that the price you pay is some intrinsic component of the quality you receive

Wholly agree - the entire thrust of this post has been based on implication, innuendo, "I know but I'm not going to tell you", scaremongering - but substantiable facts very conspicuous by their absence.

 

[Shezbo]

So please tell me this...if i have a 5yr old car then every panel on it is 5 years old or "second hand"...so if i then replace some panels with "second hand" parts from a similar 5 year old car how the hell am I making it unsafe?

Similarly as long as non-OEM parts are appropriate for the vehicle why should this affect safety.

I concede that if your P+J is important you may not want second hand/non OEM bodywork for fit and finish reasons (although surely the skill of the bodyshop is a more important factor in ensuring this, as testament to the real world replies on here). Regardless, fit and finish is NOT a safety concern so please stop this nonsense that we are all being endangered by these "bad" insurance companies and we shouldn't be getting the best deal.

It's stuff like this that is why rip-off britain exists...well meaning but factually inaccurate/wholly exaggerated scaremongering and the ridiculous implication that the price you pay is some intrinsic component of the quality you receive

Erm, of course a 5 year old parts on a 5 year old car will not do it harm...(nothing like stating the bleedin obvious) however, do you know the history of this part..answer of course not? Fit a second hand 5 year old part with no history to my 16 month old Jaguar XK....different story.

Fitting NON OE parts, I think we all know the quality can be very 50/50 at best, they fit where they touch (ask a panel beater).
Have crash tests been completed with NON OE - yes they just did not perform as well as OE...no surprise really...look at the money VM's plough into ENCAP...

All I doing is bring it to your attention....if it does not concern you and you are happy...suggest you ignore the thread:lol:

 

[Shezbo]

Wholly agree - the entire thrust of this post has been based on implication, innuendo, "I know but I'm not going to tell you", scaremongering - but substantiable facts very conspicuous by their absence.

No innuendo here, just the facts, ask me what you want to know - if I know, happy to pass it on.

I see on another thread you slated MB Insurance on this site, all insurers put there prices up and down accordingly....

You do seem to be the type who buy's cheap "that's best" and then moans when they they receive poor workmanship and service...yep that works

 

[Shezbo]

Wholly agree - the entire thrust of this post has been based on implication, innuendo, "I know but I'm not going to tell you", scaremongering - but substantiable facts very conspicuous by their absence.

Just to help (trying to broaden minds and help people), here is a comment from BMW regarding repairing modern cars:

Michael Geiger of BMW gave an eye opening insight into the technology and repair methodology BMW have developed in order to create efficient repair practices and procedures. This is driven by customer choice, weight, design and safety in modern vehicles. He told us:

"It’s not possible for Bodyshops to repair all brands of vehicle– as insures want, the technology is way too complicated not to specialise. Why do dealerships outsource body repair but do servicing in house? Simple: high cost and huge investment – customers need to understand vehicles are now very technically driven and need to be repaired correctly"

Not my words, but well choosen words...

 

[drmw]

No innuendo here, just the facts, ask me what you want to know - if I know, happy to pass it on.

I see on another thread you slated MB Insurance on this site, all insurers put there prices up and down accordingly....

You do seem to be the type who buy's cheap "that's best" and then moans when they they receive poor workmanship and service...yep that works

What crap. You have been asked (not by me) for specifics - you do not provide them

I did not "slate" Knott - I stated "Must confess, I never understood why companies don't apply the principle across the year - drop your margins, you'll get more business. I don't believe you have been competitive based on the threads on this forum, although I may be mistaken".

You then state "all insurers put there prices up and down accordingly". Two points - Knott is a broker, not an insurer and makes its money by commission. The adjective is "their", not "there". Semantics? No. Attention to detail? Yes.

You have no idea what type of person I am. Driving an SL55 for some years followed by an Aston does not make what I would describe as someone who "buy's cheap". Incidentally, the verb is "buys" - no apostrophe. See above.

As an advocate of buying the best warranty (aka "insurance") you can, my preference to use main dealers (much as I admire the independent garages) - ditto.

So - get your facts straight before you launch forth (indeed, try to include some specific to your posts for a change) otherwise you might appear to be someone who likes the written equivalent of their own voice - to quote - "Yep, that works"

 

[lwbnick]

however, do you know the history of this part..answer of course not?

If it's undamaged, why would anyone need to worry about its history?

 

[lwbnick]

"It’s not possible for Bodyshops to repair all brands of vehicle– as insures want, the technology is way too complicated not to specialise. Why do dealerships outsource body repair but do servicing in house? Simple: high cost and huge investment – customers need to understand vehicles are now very technically driven and need to be repaired correctly"

Not my words, but well choosen words...

BMW just want to keep the work in house, if they were that bothered about their customers they'd make their cars a little less easy to steal.

 

[Frontstep]

Or easier to repair would do it.

 

[Xtractorfan]

BMW 5,6&7 front ends are now all aluminium.. so it is imperative that they are repaired in a workshop set up for the repair of such vehicles...

 

[d215yq]

Erm, of course a 5 year old parts on a 5 year old car will not do it harm...(nothing like stating the bleedin obvious) however, do you know the history of this part..answer of course not? Fit a second hand 5 year old part with no history to my 16 month old Jaguar XK....different story.

Fitting NON OE parts, I think we all know the quality can be very 50/50 at best, they fit where they touch (ask a panel beater).
Have crash tests been completed with NON OE - yes they just did not perform as well as OE...no surprise really...look at the money VM's plough into ENCAP...

All I doing is bring it to your attention....if it does not concern you and you are happy...suggest you ignore the thread:lol:

It seems with your sort there is a need to state the bleedin obvious! Why does every part have to have a history??...most of us buy our cars second hand and to be honest, we don't know what pothole the wheel hit 1k miles ago, we don't know what repair (if done properly) was done if there's no evidence, we don't know if a non OE this or that was fitted. Even if buying new, when it's in for service, or borrowed do we know what the garage are doing all the time? NO!

But rather to get in a hissy rage and worry our P+J is a death trap we do basic sensible checks of the vehicle like does it meet our required standard, does it pass an MOT, are the tyres looking ok, etc and get on with our lives.

Now why should it be any different when we make a claim. we take it to a body shop and we see if the car comes back looking alright...and if a cat c so the damage could affect safety it gets AN INDEPENDENT INSPECTION anyway before being back on the road.

So then we know it's safe if we don't like the appearance we go back to the body shop and get them to re-do it, usually to a good outcome.

If you had any understanding of probability and chance you would understand that even if these bad practices were widespread the chance of death or injury by repairing using a second hand or non OEM part were close to zero and really not worth worrying about. there's plenty of everyday things and actions out there with a far greater probability of harming you.

Now can we sleep easy and not have any more of this please?

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Quality Assured Systems

really upset me.

One former head of the Health and Safety Executive once said "Any risk assessment which relies on the assumption that people will behave correctly, is fatally flawed". And he was right.

QA systems which rely on ticking boxes tell you what has been done, not how well it has been done.

More to the point, they tell you what has been ticked, and what has not been ticked, and that is about all. So things might have been done, but not ticked, and things might not have been done but have been ticked.

I have reviewed servicing records to discover that there are ticks for having checked items that the car did not have!

The ultimate smile is when you go into a public convenience in one of the large stores, where they check the facility every so often, and have a list on the wall of when it was checked, and by whom. I tend to smile when I see that all the checks have been done, dated and signed for the next two days! Now, that is getting up to date with your work!

As for d215yq, see it for what it is and move on. It would be hard, if possible, to prove that the signatures were all done at the same time, but if you believe they were, then walking away would be the best choice, and if you are now committed to this purchase, its a thought for next time.

 

[Frontstep]

Theres a lot of common sense in the above post, I suggest a lie down after that.