A Modest Proposal for Making Traffic Flow as Freely as it Does on the Continent

[jon_harley]

Driving in Spain a couple of weeks ago, I observed the phenomenon of trucks braking rather than pulling out in front of a car going much faster than they were. I'm not sure I've ever seen this in the UK. Trucks pull out and sod everyone else.

And in France last week I noticed hundreds of miles of dual carriageway road where trucks are simply not allowed to overtake. Result: the slow lane full of trucks going at the speed of the slowest, and the fast lane used by passenger cars going at the speed limit.

Within minutes of driving away from the chunnel in Kent, I saw the spectacle of trucks in all three lanes, each going a couple of miles faster than the one to its left; result, lane 3 full of cars wanting to go faster, lanes 1 and 2 virtually empty. And on a 200 mile trip on Monday I found myself stuck behind a white van in the fast lane more than a dozen times (I think getting on for 20). When the vans eventually deign to get out of the fast lane there's always a long gap in front where they've fallen behind the next car.

So, my proposal: restrict all commercial vehicles to lanes 1 and 2 of all roads, and trucks to lane 1only if there are less than 3 lanes.

Wouldn't that get the traffic flowing much more freely like it does everywhere else in Europe?

 

[Blobcat]

There is a section of the M42/A42 not that far from you wherre they are trialling this out. It only goes on for a mile of so so don't know if it will make all that much difference.

 

[BarryG]

What about the pensioners on there day out driving along at 40 MPH in the middle lane, even though the inside lane is clear?

Barry

 

[flying haggis]

Driving in Spain a couple of weeks ago, I observed the phenomenon of trucks braking rather than pulling out in front of a car going much faster than they were. I'm not sure I've ever seen this in the UK. Trucks pull out and sod everyone else.

And in France last week I noticed hundreds of miles of dual carriageway road where trucks are simply not allowed to overtake. Result: the slow lane full of trucks going at the speed of the slowest, and the fast lane used by passenger cars going at the speed limit.

Within minutes of driving away from the chunnel in Kent, I saw the spectacle of trucks in all three lanes, each going a couple of miles faster than the one to its left; result, lane 3 full of cars wanting to go faster, lanes 1 and 2 virtually empty. And on a 200 mile trip on Monday I found myself stuck behind a white van in the fast lane more than a dozen times (I think getting on for 20). When the vans eventually deign to get out of the fast lane there's always a long gap in front where they've fallen behind the next car.

So, my proposal: restrict all commercial vehicles to lanes 1 and 2 of all roads, and trucks to lane 1only if there are less than 3 lanes.

Wouldn't that get the traffic flowing much more freely like it does everywhere else in Europe?

re restricting all commercial vehicles to lane 1 only when there isless than three lanes.
That would mean that every truck is then restricted to travel at the speed of the slowest vehicle and if that happened to be a low loader carrying a large JCB and only doing 35mph at best, the resulting queue of trucks behind would rightly feel very aggreived and no one in the outer lanes could leave at junctions without forcing their way into the inside lane. As always the car drivers out there seem to think that they are the only ones who should be on the roads but dont forget that if you bought an item in shop or filled your car with fuel today a truck brought it to that shop!

 

[johnmc]

Hi,
I'm biased on this one, especially when since I was told just how slow trucks are made to go these days. Not their fault, but I don't see why slow moving traffic needs more than one lane anywhere. We've got lots of folks using the roads, can't clog it up with slow movers. I notice more and more freight is heading back to rail again which will help on the trunk roads/motorways.

As for the pensioners, drive past quietly, you might wake them up..!

John

 

[Blobcat]

What you need is a nice motorbike

 

[Myros]

why not make everyone keep a good gap

from the vehicle in front, Then we could all get over and off despite the trucks living in lane 1. and ban anything over 7.5 tonnes from overtaking uphill on a motorway. I seem to remember in Germany and the Czech republic, HGVs can stay in lane tow until they have overtaken whatever it was they were passing when the hill commenced, then they have to get over to lane 1 and stay there. Of course, we could ditch the 60mph limit as well, as that slows them up a bit, well the ones that obey it of course.

 

[daveenty]

If we were to drop the ridiculous (IMHO) speed limit for LGVs, we may get back to a road on which traffic flows, as opposed from restricting it.
How many times have we all been stuck on a two-laner behind one truck struggling to pass another?
If they were to lose the ridiculous 53/6 mph (year dependant) limiters (Thank you Europe) then we wouldn't have the bunching which we have now.
Classic example: -
470bhp Scania passing (thrashing) 370bhp Iveco on a hill. Hill levels out, all of a sudden these things are both stuck at the same speed...Iveco can't slow to let Scania pass, as revs are lost for the next hill/slope.

Personal opinion, but watched it happening from the start.

BTW...If it's European, why do I get passed by every LGV on the road apart from English ones?

Can of Worms?........possibly, but truth spoken as an ex transport person

 

[television]

If we were to drop the ridiculous (IMHO) speed limit for LGVs, we may get back to a road on which traffic flows, as opposed from restricting it.
How many times have we all been stuck on a two-laner behind one truck struggling to pass another?
If they were to lose the ridiculous 53/6 mph (year dependant) limiters (Thank you Europe) then we wouldn't have the bunching which we have now.
Classic example: -
470bhp Scania passing (thrashing) 370bhp Iveco on a hill. Hill levels out, all of a sudden these things are both stuck at the same speed...Iveco can't slow to let Scania pass, as revs are lost for the next hill/slope.

Personal opinion, but watched it happening from the start.

BTW...If it's European, why do I get passed by every LGV on the road apart from English ones?

Can of Worms?........possibly, but truth spoken as an ex transport person

You put that over very well, that's just how they go on, it happens all of the time. I have noticed in Sweden on the E3 and E4 where the monsters pass through from Finland at night(they mainly go by night) even with 2 trailers on the back they do keep up a fair speed. Many times when I have not been in a hurry its OK to sit back as they are going at the near max speed limit for that road.

malcolm

 

[SLinKyjoe]

the speed limiters are fit for economy reasons. The speed limit on motorways for LGV's is 60mph.

All road users are entitled to use the road, and LGV's and PCV's are already restricted to a lower speed limit on the motorway than cars, and they are already restricted in which lanes they can use. this example is just another way of further restrictions on commercial road users.

They pay to use the road just like we do. If Car drivers slow down to the same speed, you wont have the problem when overtaking so thats dealt with that issue.

The real problem is the amount of road traffic and the sheer biligerance of local councils making it unappealing for vehicles or any type to enter a town or city. We do not have an intergrated road transpost system in this country, we have a free-for-all system which puts far too much traffic on the roads. Either build more orads or reduce the amount needing to drive on roads is the only way you can reduce congestion. to take traffic off roads you need to use the rail and air frieght services, so thats more trains and maybes more rail lines, and more aircraft!

But while the greens are on board, none of the above will happen, so they just make you pay more for your travel and provide no alternative!

You cannot compare countries like Spain with ours, they have nowhere near the same road usage, or cars per mile as the UK, so what works there may not correlate to working here for a benefit. it will just create a bigger log jam of traffic further along the motorways.

 

[jberks]

That would mean that every truck is then restricted to travel at the speed of the slowest vehicle and if that happened to be a low loader carrying a large JCB and only doing 35mph at best, the resulting queue of trucks behind would rightly feel very aggreived and no one in the outer lanes could leave at junctions without forcing their way into the inside lane. !

Absolutely true, which is why there should also be a minimum speed limit. Any vehicle not capable of maintaining the minimum limit would have to leave the motorway. This should also be time related as there is no need for these regs between 8pm and 6am when the trucks can have a free for all.
The other problem, as I discovered recently when the inside lane was full of slow moving trucks is that they form a wall between you and the exit or signposts.

 

[Myros]

I think there is a minimum speed limit

I looked it up once. Something like any vehicle not capable of 25 mph unladen on the flat not towing a trailer shall not be allowed on the motorway. Not much use really.

 

[jon_harley]

470bhp Scania passing (thrashing) 370bhp Iveco on a hill. Hill levels out, all of a sudden these things are both stuck at the same speed...Iveco can't slow to let Scania pass, as revs are lost for the next hill/slope.

Oh yes, loss of revs would be awful wouldn't it? Well worth slowing scores of cars down to 50mph to avoid that!

My point is, slower trucks mean faster cars, and there are a lot more of us car drivers.

 

[jon_harley]

Absolutely true, which is why there should also be a minimum speed limit. Any vehicle not capable of maintaining the minimum limit would have to leave the motorway. This should also be time related as there is no need for these regs between 8pm and 6am when the trucks can have a free for all.
The other problem, as I discovered recently when the inside lane was full of slow moving trucks is that they form a wall between you and the exit or signposts.

In Spain, all signposts are duplicated on both sides of the carriageway.

In Portugal, virtually all hills on major roads have minimum speeds for the outer lane/s - if you can't go that fast, you can't use that lane. Another good idea.

 

[johnmc]

Absolutely true, which is why there should also be a minimum speed limit. Any vehicle not capable of maintaining the minimum limit would have to leave the motorway. This should also be time related as there is no need for these regs between 8pm and 6am when the trucks can have a free for all.
The other problem, as I discovered recently when the inside lane was full of slow moving trucks is that they form a wall between you and the exit or signposts.

Hi, true but if the wall prevents you from overtaking that's also illegal. They need to leave a gap to permit overtaking. More than a few of us forget that on modern busy roads. You see a lot of stupid attempts to "close up and block traffic", dangerous at best.

I really like the idea of trunk road freight either at night or on the railway.

John

 

[turnipsock]

I looked it up once. Something like any vehicle not capable of 25 mph unladen on the flat not towing a trailer shall not be allowed on the motorway. Not much use really.

That one comes up in pub quizes a lot.

Speed limiters are the most stupid thing ever. If a lorry can only do 53/6 mph and needs to make up time this can only be done in 30/20mph speed limits. Where do 50% of all road deaths occur? ...in 30mph zones. (only 12% on motorways)

 

[mercdriver]

98% of the gross national product travels on a truck. The fuel protests a few years ago simply blocked the fuel suppliers trucks in their various depots, and after 3 days the country was on it's knees. That was just fuel, imagine if all trucks were delayed/removed. Then, within hours, Tesco's and Asda would be running short of stock. Within a week, food would be running out. Therefore I think instead of moaning about trucks, motorists should be grateful and indeed leave motorways to carry the traffic they were designed for ie. commercial road users. By the way, I am not a trucker.

Mark

 

[Blobcat]

I thought that is what the railways and merchant navy were for

 

[Myros]

and the canals

they are pretty quiet these days. No , I'm not a bargee.

 

[bitonw]

I find this a bit of a childish stupid lorries against cars & cars against lorries discussion...

We both drive on these unlogical bad roads on this Island. A bit more love and understanding on both sides (cars/lorries) should be solve the problem. Ever drove an 38 tonnes 18 meter artic on a Friday afternoon?

More logical use of the road like no heavy (slow) or wide-load transports in rush hour. Faster of clearing roads after an accident etc. And no slowing down and watching motorists on the other side of the road creating another traffic jam! Better (working) electronically information signs. More learning from other countries how they use the road. Like the use of the hard shoulder on the M42 (In the Netherlands they use that kind system for over 10 years now).

I'm driving since 2003 on this Island around both in a car and lorry (ADR) and I'm shocked how bad you people drive and how unprofessional the government is with solving traffic problems. I can write a whole book but I can better stop now before we getting another discussion...