A160 dirty engine/oil

[aliddle]

Hello,

I have a 1999 petrol Automatic A160. It recently developed an engine knock. MB took timing cover and head off, but could not find knock. Instead found a minor looking vertical score in one of the cylinders and said I should get a new half block, saving me finding the knock at the same time as getting rid of the scored cylinder. Quote $19,300. Engine was very dirty with black sludge and redish brown 'varnish' evenly over whole internal engine. Not being keen to pay this I took the engine home to fix it myself. In lowering the engine I saw a 'torn' breather connecting to the timing cover. Looked inside both connected breathers and found inside denatured and depositing rubber bits into the engine sump. Cleaned, inspected and measured up sub assembly and found all within tolerance.

My theory: Rubber particles from hose badly contaminated the oil, which affected the hydraulic tappets causing one to create the knock. Merely replacing the oil and flushing the engine may have solved the problem. I bought a 2nd hand engine from a wreaker and found that it was also dirty and also had denatured (buggered) breather hoses - too much of a coincidence.

My questions to you:

1. Has anyone else got the same problem? Check your dipstick - is it dirty (redish-brown)? PLEASE let me know!

2. I do not want to buy the same hoses only to have them also bomb out - can I make one in copper? Would this create a problem? (corrosion?).

Thanks. Alan

 

[aliddle]

C'mon guys....!

I really need some interest here.... Hellooooo?

 

[Aussie Nick]

Hi Allan Seems ridiculous to quote you 19 gs when they know that is beyond the value of the car.
I think a strip down using parts from both engines is the way to go, Ther hose contamination is weird. Never saw that happen on hard worked excavators. Suggest you try to replace the hoses with ones used in excavators .Iam sure one of them will fit.
Regards Aussie Nick

 

[aliddle]

Thanks Nick, Yes I am fed up with MB behaviour, they have basically switched off their responses to me. I might add that the vehicle had been serviced by MB agent since new before this happened.

The excavator option sounds reasonable: will follow up. The hose is a weird shape - like a fat snake, thin at both ends and fat in the middle - is this to dampen the air flow?

I am going to dump the 2nd hand long block in complete this w/e so I can keep my original engine as 'evidence' for any claim I may make.

 

[mattkh]

The hose is a weird shape - like a fat snake, thin at both ends and fat in the middle - is this to dampen the air flow?.

Hi
Please put up a picture.

 

[aliddle]

Mhn...

I do have some pics... just need to figure out how to attach them... will come back to you...

 

[mattkh]

Hi
One way is to put them on photobucket and put the link address in your thread.

 

[aliddle]

Some Pics

Herewith some photos:

2 of the errant breather hose cut open.
1 of the dirty sump
1 of the sludge on the oilway head bolt
1 of my rather sad looking (wifes) car.

I am convinced that the sludge and colouring has come from the rubber hose dropping fragments into the sump/oil. MB agent has serviced this vehicle at the correct intervals. Oil filter also has rubber fragments in trapped.

Please see original thread and comment (not only on the breather) - thanks!

Alan

 

[Aussie Nick]

Hi Allan . Saw photos. Wondering What sort of service the Dealer has been performing. That oil looks too sludgy and dirty to me for a car with regular servicing. You wouldn't get dirty oil like that even in a diesel engine.
Why didnt the dealer notice the rubber contamination previously in the old oil? Further why didn't he notice the contamination on the oil filter when that was allegedly changed? Is it a cartridge type oil filter?
Before you do anything else I suggest that you have the whole engine inspected by another competent mechanic or specialist Engineer.
You may have a remedy against the Dealer per se for misleading and deceptive conduct under the Trade Practices Act (cwlth) AUS.
Get the engineer's report first and depending on the outcome, consult a competent Solicitor.

 

[mattkh]

I do have some pics... just need to figure out how to attach them... will come back to you...

Hi
Thank you very much for the photographs.
I went to a MB dealer to get a sump washer for the oil drain bolt. I was told they do not keep any because they suck the old oil out.

 

[Aussie Nick]

Tell the dealer that his practice of sucking oil out is less than good practice. You can't suck all the oil out completely. This method is best saved for difficult to get to sump plugs that are found on the marine big Mercruiser v8s . because of the difficulty of getting to the sump plug and draining the oil in the engine bay. The oil is sucked out through the dipstick entry using a pump. It will get most of the old oil out but there is no oil change like the traditional one

 

[aliddle]

Yes, I am already filling out a form from MVRIA (NSW Office of Fair Trading).

I was disappointed at both the MB Garage attitude and MB Asia Pacific - As soon as the problem became "too hard" to solve they dropped their support. It appears that their answer to any problem is to "get a new short block" - no wonder they never find the causes of problems (such as the perished breather hose). Their diagnostic skills have evolved out!

Anyway.... What about the prevalence of this problem; it is too much of a coincidence having my engine looking identical (in mess) to a 2nd hand import from Japan (post 2001 model with <50k on the clock) AND with the same breather hose perished inside! This must be a more prevalent issue.

I was hoping that I would get lots of short one-liners from other A160 owners worldwide who had eagerly rushed outside to check their dipstick colours form me! (yes... both my engines dipsticks were identical in reddish brown stained colour). Lets have some support please people - you may save your own engine!

Whilst I have my engine in a million pieces - dose anyone need any photos of anything?

Alan

 

[Blobcat]

The sucking method is very popular in North America where they change the oil very regularly.

 

[aliddle]

Yes, it was a cartridge filter. I keep in regular contact with the MB garage by email in an attempt to get technical info where I need it and also to keep them informed every step of the way. Even if I do not get a written reply I feel that any constructive approach will stand me in good stead with Office of Fair Trading.

 

[Aussie Nick]

If it was a cartridge filter the rubber pieces which were degrading off the inside of the hose should have been readily visible when the oil filter was removed from the oil filter container on the outside surface of the cartridge. Are you going to tell me this problem occurred suddenly just before the knocking started or was ongoing for some time?

 

[aliddle]

The car has done 111,000km, I noticed the dipstick colour at 48,000km just after I bought it (I had just immigrated). At 72,000 service I told MB that the engine had "happy tappets" and were they using the correct grade of oil? They told me all was well. The knock started just before Christmas and we parked the car till 2nd Jan when I took it to MB garage. Actually - When we were shown the "vertical score" in the cylinder, and my wife and I registered shock at the dirty engine - the mechanic said "poor maintenance"! When I reminded him who had been maintaining the engine he revisied this to "unleaded petrol instead of premium unleaded". Remember - I had not yet found the breather hose tucked away tight against the firewall.

My claim is along the lines that regardles of the source of the diry oil - MB should have noted this and either found the cause or at the very least reduced the oil change interval. This would have (in MY opinion) prevented the tappet from malfunctioning (causing the knock) and would have avoided the unnecessary stripping of the engine. MB are still of the opinion that the knock is from a failed small end bush from unknown causes.

Thanks for your interest and support Nick, I appreciate it! Regards..

 

[mattkh]

I was hoping that I would get lots of short one-liners from other A160 owners worldwide who had eagerly rushed outside to check their dipstick colours form me! (yes... both my engines dipsticks were identical in reddish brown stained colour).Alan

Hi
Sorry. My dipstick colors are normal, No reddish stain.

 

[aliddle]

Thanks Matt! Glad to hear that. Just as a matter of interest, I pooped into the MB garage now and happened to see an A160 parked there so I innocently asked if I could look at the dipstick: It was stained reddish brown just like mine! So apart from your engine that is 3 that I have seen and they are all reddish brown! It was good to see the Workshop Manager's face!

I am just trying to find a way to get people on the street to show me their dipsticks without getting punched! Suggestions?

 

[aliddle]

I'd like to correct that last posting: I did not poop in the workshop....

 

[aliddle]

So...Any suggestions as to how I can get my request to A160 owners to check their dipstiscks? No one seems to be responding...