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Almost removed my 270 CDi engine today - quick question to ask

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by Sponcom, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. Sponcom

    Sponcom Senior Member

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    Afternoon all

    I finally got hold of very low mileage engine block to replace my knackered one in my 2002 c class 270 CDI.

    The head etc. is already off the car so I set about removing just the block today. I've pretty much lost the light now but got as far as getting the hoist out and splitting the engine from the auto gearbox.

    I've managed to pull the engine forward about 3-4" and can see the flywheel and torque convertor but the engine appears to be impeded by something and I cannot pull it forward any more.

    My questions is should you lift the engine (and jack up the gearbox) as you pull forward and if so how much? Does the sump hit the cross member if it is not lifted enough? I'm pretty sure I've disconnected everything that should be disconnected and I have a good view of everything as the head and manifolds are already removed.

    Also is it necessary to remove the radiator? I have removed the fan and and protected the radiator at the moment but unsure how much the engine needs to come forward to get the shaft out of the transmission.

    Any suggestions very welcome! Thanks, Paul
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  2. brianbrian

    brianbrian Senior Member

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    I would move the radiator out the car for more room and safety, have you taken the bolts out that hold the fly wheel and torque converter together? Hope this helps
     
  3. EmilysDad

    EmilysDad Senior Member

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    It's a bit late now, but engines & auto gearboxes are best removed as a single lump.
     
  4. OP
    Sponcom

    Sponcom Senior Member

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    Thanks Brian

    No I didn't remove the flywheel/torque convertor bolts. I followed the steps given in the Haynes manual and it doesn't mention undoing these at all! Apart from pipes and connections it just mentions the transmission to engine/sump bolts and the engine mounts. If they need to be removed in order to remove the block I hav a big problem! My engine is seized due to a shattered piston 1 and I cannot turn the engine in order to get at the bolts and due to the location of the car I just do not have the option of removing engine and gearbox combined.

    It looks like the haynes manual may be wrong!
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  5. cleverdicky

    cleverdicky Senior Member

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    They are but will still need splitting. Without extra help and a damn good high hoist I wouldn't. They are seriously heavy / awkward together. And why if you dont need to.

    last time I did one it was refitted by lifting the car over the lump and lowering it. NOT a good idea as extremely dangerous / impractical and loads more work.

    Check for a forgotten cable or support bracket between box and lump. And most important as Brian says, remove starter and flywheel / converter bolts.
    If you keep pulling and it pops off you will have the most god almighty mess you could ever know.
     
  6. OP
    Sponcom

    Sponcom Senior Member

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    Looks like I have an issue as described just before you posted! Obviously I have missed the torque convertor bolts but I cant get at them due to piston 1 stuck and I can't revolve the engine.
     
  7. DIYMAN

    DIYMAN Senior Member

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    As a last resort if the head is off, can you disconnect the little end on No.1 piston so you can turn the old engine. You will have to drill/break through the piston crown to get at it.
     
  8. OP
    Sponcom

    Sponcom Senior Member

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    Thanks for that.

    The piston is pretty shattered so I might be able to break through somehow. See pic. I have another thread running on what caused that!

    DSCN2643.JPG
     
  9. bigtwin

    bigtwin Banned

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    That'll polish out. In the meantime, smack it with a BIG cold chisel till you can turn the engine.
     
  10. OP
    Sponcom

    Sponcom Senior Member

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    About to go out side and give it a go now.

    As it's about -4C the chisel will be pretty cold :D
     
  11. cleverdicky

    cleverdicky Senior Member

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    Mad, Desperate or Married.

    (pick one) ;)
     
  12. robparker

    robparker Senior Member Authorised Forum Supporter

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    As you have split the box and engine you dont need to remove the torque converter bolts to pull the engine out, but assuming you will want to re-use the torque converter you will need to at some point, but probably easier when the engine is on the floor.
    But the gearbox shaft will be hanging onto the torque converter abit so you will need to pull forwards and upwards and probably have some sort of bar you can gentle encourage everything with. Probably safer to remove the rad incase it all suddenly lunges forwards when it splits.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  13. cleverdicky

    cleverdicky Senior Member

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    Rob if he does not undo the bolts, and thereby pulls the converter off its shaft, it will cause an absolute flood of gearbox oil to gush out. not to mention cause damage to the shaft seals if not done while alligned and will need a lot more room to pull forward.
    Not a pretty thing to see.
    He's changing the engine only so no need to pull it off.

    And it is rather cold so not a time for unnecessary work
     
  14. Alex Crow

    Alex Crow Senior Member

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    One option would be to disconnect the prop and slide the box back 6" or so.
    Even then the engine will need to be at an angle to come out with the TC on the back - there is very little fore/aft room in a C270 engine bay...
     
  15. OP
    Sponcom

    Sponcom Senior Member

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    Thanks for the tips.

    First I did manage to break the piston so could turn the engine, took about 10 mins to sort that out.

    I then managed to undo the bolts and pulled out the engine no problem. The torque convertor had been pulled forward a little and there was a little oil in there, not masses but a little .

    I then spent the day stripping the old block, dressed the new block and managed to lift it into the car just as I lost the light.

    I then found out I had put one of the engine mount brackets on upside down :mad: so had to remove is again!

    It's all a bit awkward when the car is stuck on the road (I can't get it onto my drive or garage) and I have no assistance!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  16. paul hayward

    paul hayward Senior Member

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    fair play for giving it a go and getting this far!....fingers crossed it all goes back in so you can enjoy all your hard work again very soon;)
     
  17. DIYMAN

    DIYMAN Senior Member

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    Well done for getting so far glad my idea worked, you are a brave man, reminds me of my teenage years lifting engines under a tree at the side of the road. Whats the title of your other thread?
     
  18. OP
    Sponcom

    Sponcom Senior Member

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    Thread for the shattered piston is below - couldn't believe the problems a swirl flap could cause!

    http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=106756
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  19. Frontstep

    Frontstep Senior Member

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    You have my unbridled best wishes hope it runs well when you have finished.
     
  20. OP
    Sponcom

    Sponcom Senior Member

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    Thanks!

    managed to get engine in on Monday morning between 9 an 11 am in the peeing rain!

    After turning the engine mount round I lifted the engine with ratchet straps left and right and one connected round the alternator mounting. This allowed me to manouvere the engine as if I had an assistant.

    I managed to get the engine in an lined up with the torque converter however the gearbox had revolved a and the bolts would not line up. I managed to twist the gearbox a little with the trolley jack and some blocks of wood and got a long bolt thought the bellhousing and into the engine. This allowed me to position the engine onto the mounts with the gearbox in alignment.

    all a bit difficult on your own and on the road with limited access underneath but it can be done if you just think and don't flap!

    One thing to note is that if I had fully built up the engine first I would not have had the access or the strength to manouvre the engine on my own. By just putting in the block first I also got access to the top bolts of the earbox which are a pig to get too!

    I hope my posts put of anyone trying the same. Although I suceeded it was not a pleasant experience!

    Cheers for everyones helpful input!
     

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