AMG brakes

NSNO

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I have a W209 CLK 270 CDI and I am thinking of upgrading the brake calipers to AMG Brembo's as I do not find the standard brakes that effective. My question is, will these fit onto my CLK?

Thanks
 

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You can compare the brakes on the AMG version here to the standard version that you have here
 

whitenemesis

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There is a CLK55 which is an AMG so yes the brakes will fit, you will need 18" wheels of the correct offset to clear the calipers though.

There are also the Sports Pack brakes option, less extreme and much less expensive.

But I would question first why your std brakes are inadequate?
 

Number_Cruncher

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>>But I would question first why your std brakes are inadequate?

I tend to agree with the idea behind the question.

Although this may run against intuition, most inadequately thought out brake upgrades will actually increase stopping distances! - especially where big brakes are fitted to the front axle.

Unless you're driving up and down Alps, or driving like a dextral mammary, standard MB brakes are more than good enough.
 
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I tend to agree with the idea behind the question.

Although this may run against intuition, most inadequately thought out brake upgrades will actually increase stopping distances! - especially where big brakes are fitted to the front axle.

Unless you're driving up and down Alps, or driving like a dextral mammary, standard MB brakes are more than good enough.

No I am not dirving up and down the Alps or driving like a dextral mammary, it is just that I do not find the brakes up to the job compared to when driving something like say a GTI in which you can really feel the brakes, wheras mine do not inspire confidence in me. I also read of someone who had a CLK 270 CDI who upgraded to the AMG brakes and this is one of the reasons why I am considering it myself.

It could be that my brake discs need replacing but the 270 engine is a heavy lump upfront which may play a part in it.
 

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I simple upgrade would be to fit EBC red ceramic pads
 

whitenemesis

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The brakes will have been designed/specified with the engine in mind.

Do MB brakes have a reputation for lack of feel?

My 270 CDI has the Sports Pack brakes (twin pot calipers and cross-drilled/ventilated discs) and I have great confidence in them. They are very able to (repeatedly) bring the car to a very rapid stop.
 

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The brakes will have been designed/specified with the engine in mind.

Do MB brakes have a reputation for lack of feel?

My 270 CDI has the Sports Pack brakes (twin pot calipers and cross-drilled/ventilated discs) and I have great confidence in them. They are very able to (repeatedly) bring the car to a very rapid stop.

My 129 had very good brakes,, with the EBC red pads they were almost too powerful
 

Number_Cruncher

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>>wheras mine do not inspire confidence in me.

What, exactly, do you mean by that? Is it possible that there's a fault that needs fixing on the standard system?

Yes, many people do upgrade their brakes - sadly, few of them do any sensible testing of brake performance before and after, and many actually are degrading the response of the whole system by doing so.

In your case, with a heavy diesel engine at the front, you're even more likely than most to be taking a retrograde step by fitting big front brakes.
 

whitenemesis

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Just to be clear my brakes were factory fitted and as such are specced and balanced for the car.

I agree with NC simply banging on bigger brakes will not garantee improved performance.
 
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NSNO

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television I simple upgrade would be to fit EBC red ceramic pads

Thanks, I may try that.

My 270 CDI has the Sports Pack brakes (twin pot calipers and cross-drilled/ventilated discs) and I have great confidence in them. They are very able to (repeatedly) bring the car to a very rapid stop.

Well mine does not have the sports brakes like yours, so maybe that is why your brakes would be more effective than mine. My brakes are ventilated but not cross drilled, not sure about the calipers.


>>wheras mine do not inspire confidence in me.

What, exactly, do you mean by that?

Well as an example I had a GTI demo a few weeks a go and you only had to tap the brakes and you could feel them biting, wheras this is not the case on my car.

Is it possible that there's a fault that needs fixing on the standard system?

Maybe, I plan on having them checked out.

In your case, with a heavy diesel engine at the front, you're even more likely than most to be taking a retrograde step by fitting big front brakes.

How come you say this, as I would of thought the oppoiste would be true. For example if I were to fit brake discs and calipers from a CLK 55 AMG, then these have been designed for a more powerfull car than mine so logic would dictate that they will be more effecive than my current brakes. Or is it not as simple as that?
 

whitenemesis

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Not as simple as that. Can you enduce a skid with your current brakes? Ultimate stopping is down to grip.

Bigger brakes for heavier cars. Bigger discs for greater heat disipation and better repeated applications.
 
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Not as simple as that. Can you enduce a skid with your current brakes? Ultimate stopping is down to grip.

I don't know, I haven't needed to brake that hard in order to determine this thankfully, but I have not had this happen to date except in icy conditions.

Bigger brakes for heavier cars.
As in brake calipers?

Bigger discs for greater heat disipation and better repeated applications.
Surely this is a good thing though?
 
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Number_Cruncher

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>>Or is it not as simple as that?

It's nowhere near as simple as that - sorry! **

The logic for a one off braking event runs like this;

- The limiting factor in maximum brake force is virtually always the tyres slipping on the road - actually, the front tyres slipping.

- Rear brake locking is very dangerous, and all manufacturers need to demonstrate that they avoid this to be allowed to sell cars in Europe

- At the point when the front brakes are about to lock up, you want the rear brakes to be producing some useful braking (but not quite locking!)

- The outputs from the front and rear brakes are linked - unlike, say, motorbikes where there are two different controls for front and rear brakes.

- Fitting big front brakes reduces the brake pressure when the front brake locks up, and hence the contribution from the rear brakes is less, and hence, the stopping distance is longer!

If you're having problems with pedal feel, and the brakes check out OK, plenty of material on the pads, nice clean disc surfaces, freely moving caliper pistons and brake pads, etc, etc, then it may be worth checking the front wheel bearings end float - if this is excessive, pedal feel can suffer.

** Like many "accepted facts" to do with motor cars, the value in fitting big front brakes is largely mythical.

Heqat is why I mentioned Alps and the contents of the right hand cup higher up - but, I suspect you're problem is more of basic pedal feel rather than a gradual loss of braking performance as the sytem gets hot.

One last point - some manufacturers tweak their servo settings to make the brakes "feel" like they have more bite - Renault are particualrly offensive in this regard - however, it's a con. Mercedes on the other hand tend to set up their servos to be a bit on the soft side - don't be fooled by this assault by the manufacturers on your perceptions, after you've done some basic checks, find some empty road and give the pedal a big push - I'm sure that you'll find the brakes are actually there!
 
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brandwooddixon

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If the brakes aren't stopping you quickly then get them checked, if it's just down to feel then I think that you need to find an empty stretch of dry road and give the brakes a good stamping. Say from 30 mph. Emergency stop style.

I do this every now and then and it always surprises me how quickly the anchors appear. Admittedly tyre grip is the main factor and if the ABS cuts in on a dry road then you should look to changing those at first.

I started to do this as I noticed that after a service or MOT my brakes were markedly sharper in reacting to pedal pressure and I can only put this down to the mechanic either doing this or just stamping on the pedal a few times when stationary, but with the engine running.

Other than that may I point out that your car is markedly heavier than a Golf GTi and is setup more for touring than for being sporty.
 

Bolide

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Well mine does not have the sports brakes like yours, so maybe that is why your brakes would be more effective than mine. My brakes are ventilated but not cross drilled, not sure about the calipers


Define "effective"

If you want more bite buy harder pads. Having lots of initial bite may make the brakes feel "more effective" but the downside will be loss of feel and loss of the ability to modulate the brakes smoothly

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk
 

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Define "effective"

If you want more bite buy harder pads. Having lots of initial bite may make the brakes feel "more effective" but the downside will be loss of feel and loss of the ability to modulate the brakes smoothly

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

Is not the wrong way round Nick,, the EBC range of pads is easy to check with.

The green pads are the same as we use in our car as an equivalent .

The RED ceramic are softer and bite much easier, and very effective,,the only down side is that you can hear the bite, and the softer pads will wear the disc quicker.

The black are hard pads for racing,, much more energy is needed, and the disc wear is almost nil
 

whitenemesis

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Is not the wrong way round Nick,, the EBC range of pads is easy to check with.

The green pads are the same as we use in our car as an equivalent .

The RED ceramic are softer and bite much easier, and very effective,,the only down side is that you can hear the bite, and the softer pads will wear the disc quicker.

The black are hard pads for racing,, much more energy is needed, and the disc wear is almost nil

Isn't that the wrong way round Malc? WRT disc wear?
 

television

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Isn't that the wrong way round Malc? WRT disc wear?
No the soft material will always wear the hard one,, a bronze bush will wear a steel shaft down before the bush wears,, and this applies to slow moving parts like King pins, and fast object like dynamo bearings
 

whitenemesis

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No the soft material will always wear the hard one,, a bronze bush will wear a steel shaft down before the bush wears,, and this applies to slow moving parts like King pins, and fast object like dynamo bearings

How does that work then Malcolm?
 

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