And They Call Electric Cars Green?

[Srdl]

Just read a report on BBC News about Lithium mining in Cornwall. This is the explanation about how they get the Lithium. Any idea how much power this consumes?

Mark Hewson, leader of Imerys business in the UK, explained how the lithium is produced from granite quarry rock.
He said: "We're taking the crushed material, we're putting it through a series of mechanical processes which is sieving, and that creates a concentrate.
"We're then able to take that concentrate, mix it with other materials and create a pellet form, which we then roast at a very, very high temperature.
"That creates and extracts the lithium and puts it into a water soluble form - we're then able to refine that which can then go to battery manufacturers."

 

[davidsl500]

Have a read of this https://www.euronews.com/green/2022...s-reveal-the-dark-side-of-our-electric-future

 

[mioba]

well for a million and one reasons it is well known they are not green. It is a not in my back yard scenario.

 

[ajlsl600]

It's pure bull. And many can't even charge properly as makers reduce charge rates 5 min after cheque goes in, I sure that is on gov request as grid won't be able to cope.
Only way at mo is hybrid and then hydrogen. That's as green as car is going to get.

 

[Srdl]

It's pure bull. And many can't even charge properly as makers reduce charge rates 5 min after cheque goes in, I sure that is on gov request as grid won't be able to cope.
Only way at mo is hybrid and then hydrogen. That's as green as car is going to get.

How green is hydrogen? Takes a lot of energy to make it

 

[ajlsl600]

Waste is water.

 

[LostKiwi]

Waste is water.

They make it from hydrocarbon cracking. The waste from that is CO2.
To make it by electrolysis requires two to three times the energy of charging an electric car to get the same distance.

Electricity to Hydrogen - 75% efficient
Hydrogen to electricity (fuel cell) - 50% efficient
Electricity to motion - 85%

Or hydrogen ICE - 30% efficient.

So 32% overall at best (fuel cell), 25% at worst (ICE).

Electricity charging to lithium battery - >95%
Electricity to motion - 85%

So 80% overall.
If we don't have electricity generation capacity for battery vehicles we certainly don't have it for hydrogen ones.

Oh, and water vapour is a greenhouse gas too.

 

[mioba]

How green is hydrogen? Takes a lot of energy to make it

Thats the holdback.
Electrolysis of water - ie splitting the molecule with electricity. Energy intense. Surely nothing a few solar panels wont solve.

 

[LostKiwi]

Thats the holdback.
Electrolysis of water - ie splitting the molecule with electricity. Energy intense. Surely nothing a few solar panels wont solve.

Over twice as many needed compared to charging a battery.

 

[ajlsl600]

At this time. That will change .
Wots the efficiency of an 5 Yr old duracel

 

[bembo449]

How green is hydrogen? Takes a lot of energy to make it

not to mention storing it is very difficult and other dangers with using it

 

[bembo449]

i dont see why anyone cant see the ginormous elephant in the room where electric vehicles are concerned !?

 

[V6Matty]

I was in an Uber yesterday and it was a model s, the owner said that with everything over the last two year it now costs him slightly more to run the EV vs an ice car, clever guy that retired early and just just the job for something to do and keep out form under his wife’s feet

 

[ajlsl600]

Won't be going near duracells it's transitional, not a solution, except in cities

 

[Srdl]

Surely nothing a few solar panels wont solve.

I believe the Arab desert states are looking at it as a possible replacement for their oil

 

[bladecrazy]

can only speak from personal experience after owning my tesla model 3 performance since march this year, we find it cheaper than our equivilant e350 and bmw m135. we only charge at home at 29p a kw so for us its cheap cheap, there is no servicing and currently no road tax, its faster than anything i have ever driven , i wouldnt have a modern merc/bmw again. . only my personal view of course.

 

[KennyN]

Wots the efficiency of an 5 Yr old duracel

We have a chap in work who has a 110 mile daily commute , his six year old Leaf can`t make it home again without us letting him into the factory to charge the battery , if this changes (and it will) and he is forced to park his car in the works carpark then goodness knows what he is going to do as there are no public chargers within a sensible walking distance.

So , he will be leaving nightshift at 04:00 and silently travelling to Asda to sit next to petrol pumps and wait until he has enough "juice" to get home , just what anyone needs when you have just finished a nightshift and it is sub zero outside.

This is an anxiety that most can do without , EV`s may work for some but certainly not in the above example.

K

 

[ajlsl600]

Arabs nuts not to be at solar. They had decades of near free oil and now they can utilise free sunshine if they can't make mass solar work no f can

 

[ajlsl600]

We have a chap in work who has a 110 mile daily commute , his six year old Leaf can`t make it home again without us letting him into the factory to charge the battery , if this changes (and it will) and he is forced to park his car in the works carpark then goodness knows what he is going to do as there are no public chargers within a sensible walking distance.

So , he will be leaving nightshift at 04:00 and silently travelling to Asda to sit next to petrol pumps and wait until he has enough "juice" to get home , just what anyone needs when you have just finished a nightshift and it is sub zero outside.

This is an anxiety that most can do without , EV`s may work for some but certainly not in the above example.

K

Chapter n verse on duracells post warranty. I know a duracel leaf owner who can't get more that 35 miles on 7 Yr old leaf.!!! Wud not be end of world if small ice. At least he gets home then. N how much is new batt for Nissan leaf!!
Nah, not 4 me.

 

[LostKiwi]

At this time. That will change .
Wots the efficiency of an 5 Yr old duracel

Hydrogen storage (which is effectively what it is) will likely never be as efficient as battery storage. Battery storage is already >95% efficient and in some cases as high as 99%.
The major drawbacks to battery are degradation and energy density, both of which are improving all the time.