Answers FArom The Oil Expert Part # 2

Wighty

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
10,847
Reaction score
8,180
Location
Sunny Essex
Your Mercedes
W211/E320cdi/2009 and CLK200k 2009

steveq

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
459
Reaction score
247
Location
Dublin
Your Mercedes
2011 Merc S212 E220CDI Estate; 2011 Merc W204 C220 CDI; 1965 W113 Merc 230SL Pagoda
I am always suspicious of oils that just claim to "Meet the specifications of ......".
To me that is just a spurious unsubstantiated claim.

On the basis that it is very difficult and very expensive to disprove the claim, I doubt if any independent authority actually tests the oil.

I know that it is expensive for an oil supplier to get an "Approved by ..." from a car manufacturer but at least the car manufacturer who approved the oil has tested it and is happy that it is used in their engine (or gearbox or whatever).

For that reason I have always stuck with only buying "Approved by...." oils. It does add to the cost somewhat it also adds to the peace of mind.
 
Last edited:

Wighty

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
10,847
Reaction score
8,180
Location
Sunny Essex
Your Mercedes
W211/E320cdi/2009 and CLK200k 2009
Just bought one of those 20L Mannol tubs for £45 delivered ...boom !
 

Gazwould

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
1,889
Reaction score
1,049
Your Mercedes
S204 OM651
I am always suspicious of oils that just claim to "Meet the specifications of ......".
To me that is just a spurious unsubstantiated claim.

On the basis that it is very difficult and very expensive to disprove the claim, I doubt if any independent authority actually tests the oil.

I know that it is expensive for an oil supplier to get an "Approved by ..." from a car manufacturer but at least the car manufacturer who approved the oil has tested it and is happy that it is used in their engine (or gearbox or whatever).

For that reason I have always stuck with only buying "Approved by...." oils. It does add to the cost somewhat it also adds to the peace of mind.


I've tried and tested this theory for 8 years .

An oil blender like Tetrosyl will get industry standards basestocks and additive package ingredients from a main oil producer and blend to a set recipe .

You then get a cheaper marketed oil ( supermarket ) that has the same oil performance profile but hasn't the huge costs of approvals , R&D , advertising , sponsorship , etc .





"You can go into any mass retailer (Wal-Mart, Meijer, AutoZone, etc.) and buy a 5W/30 (or any other grade) that will perform well in your engine. One of the best-kept secrets of the oil industry is that these store brands are actually the same, quality oils that are produced by the major oil companies. The only difference between these products and the major company brands is the name on the container and the price. Don’t believe us? Try running your own experiment: do a sample on Oil A after a known number of miles, then do a sample on Oil B and compare the wear levels. You may see a little fluctuation, but it’s very rare for one oil to make a significant difference in an engine’s wear patterns."

www.blackstone-labs.com

Which Oil to Use? | Blackstone Laboratories


www.blackstone-labs.com
www.blackstone-labs.com





Screenshot_20201111-160319_Chrome.jpg


"Oil Specifications All modern oils are manufactured to meet certain standardised European/US or vehicle manufacturers specifications, you'll see them listed on the bottles. For example ACEA C3 or VW: 504.00 / 507.00. If a cheaper, non-branded oil carries a VW: 504.00 / 507.00 spec on the bottle then that means it is 100% suitable for use in any car that requires a VW: 504.00 / 507.00 spec. The same goes for a more expensive, branded oil which carries the VW: 504.00 / 507.00 spec. It also is 100% suitable for use in any car that requires that spec. But no more and no less. To achieve a VW: 504.00 / 507.00 spec an oil must be made up of a predetermined set of ingredients (additives) and it is the same set of ingredients regardless of the brand or price point. With both oils your warranty will be intact and your engine will not know the difference between the two."


D'ya Know What Really Grinds My Gears... A Rant About Which Engine Oil Is Best | MicksGarage

www.micksgarage.com
www.micksgarage.com
 
Last edited:

steveq

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
459
Reaction score
247
Location
Dublin
Your Mercedes
2011 Merc S212 E220CDI Estate; 2011 Merc W204 C220 CDI; 1965 W113 Merc 230SL Pagoda
When I started looking it is surprising what I found.

The UKLA set up the VLS which is the Verification of Lubrication Standards.
It is interesting -- they have actually investigated Mannol.
 

Gazwould

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
1,889
Reaction score
1,049
Your Mercedes
S204 OM651
They've investigated alot of companies , good that they have .
 

steveq

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
459
Reaction score
247
Location
Dublin
Your Mercedes
2011 Merc S212 E220CDI Estate; 2011 Merc W204 C220 CDI; 1965 W113 Merc 230SL Pagoda
Yes they have but Mannol is the only one that they state "Product not proven to be compliant following investigation. Escalated to Trading Standards"
 

Gazwould

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
1,889
Reaction score
1,049
Your Mercedes
S204 OM651
It's not as serious as you think they've just done some overzealous 'marketing' with the manufacturer spec claims .

Now they have gained approval for 504.00 507.00 which is the highest manufacturer spec in the world so it encompasses many other specs but when it comes to the fuel economy it's hard to do both protection and economy as economy is what 20 and 16 grade are all about .

Now I'm familiar with 229.52 aceing the fuel economy further than 504.00 507.00 and wasn't surprised to see it listed alongside as is the case with Mobil 1 5W30 ESP Formula .

But all others

20201125_211258.jpg


Some of which may be better on economy than 229.52 , it's a big ask .

Trouble is it's a more official point than plastering the packaging with ludicrous bumf , our special QFS formula , extended performance , heavy duty , dynamic fluid technology , dynamic drive , ultimate protection , all climate advanced , new life , high mileage , 3DX , ultimate , superior , crystal power , evolution , super fast , even for the most mundane manufacturer specs .



VLS make the issue of Mannol stating no additive package exists in the world to meet all those manufacturer specs and I agree .

But then to actually mention VW 505.01, why on earth would you worry about it being 505.01 when superior 507.00 and approved superceeded it in 2004 .

20201123_163433.jpg


20200721_174852.jpg
 
Last edited:

steveq

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
459
Reaction score
247
Location
Dublin
Your Mercedes
2011 Merc S212 E220CDI Estate; 2011 Merc W204 C220 CDI; 1965 W113 Merc 230SL Pagoda
They have managed to get on the wrong side of the organisation of their peer group.
That is never a good idea.
 

Gazwould

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
1,889
Reaction score
1,049
Your Mercedes
S204 OM651
I don't think German Mannol will care too much as VLS is only concerned with UK oil product market .

Probably regard UK as a potholed and Covid infested little island that comes to a halt when it snows .


Well I used the above Blackstone and Mick's Garage information and use Asda supermarket non approved oil , the blender is Tetrosyl in Rochdale who also supply Tesco and Sainsbury's , probably Morrison's
( I'll look on the bottom of container ) and maybe Halfords .

G Force , Carlube Triple R and Euro Car Parts Triple QX.

Used it 'frequently' for 8 years in a 160+K PD engine which the camshaft lobes are extremely vulnerable as narrow .

If this oil wasn't up to spec this would have happened.


images (1) (1).jpeg




And even hole , hydraulic bucket tappets .


Lifters.JPG
 

Gazwould

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
1,889
Reaction score
1,049
Your Mercedes
S204 OM651
Yes I've seen the Mannol 7715 LongLife 504 507 investigation and what they are going on about is pathetic .
 
OP
O

oilman

Forum Supporter
Authorised Forum Supporter
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
692
Reaction score
27
Location
Sunny Cornwall
Website
www.opieoils.co.uk
Your Mercedes
clk 2008
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #153
Last time I looked, I admit sometime ago they were also testing oils and resolving the cases but not naming the brands or oils.

Cheers,

Guy
 

ssheikh93

Active Senior Members
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
200
Reaction score
42
Location
London
Your Mercedes
W213 E220d

Gazwould

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
1,889
Reaction score
1,049
Your Mercedes
S204 OM651
Yes someone had a moan to VLS that all those manufacturer specs was impossible in one oil .

Not impossible to have 507.00 and 229.52 in one expensive potion though .

 

ssheikh93

Active Senior Members
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
200
Reaction score
42
Location
London
Your Mercedes
W213 E220d
Yes someone had a moan to VLS that all those manufacturer specs was impossible in one oil .

Not impossible to have 507.00 and 229.52 in one expensive potion though .

Yes I saw the Mobil 1. A bit pricey but will be worth it. Will be purchasing.
 


A truly one stop site for Mercedes owners. Very experienced – friendly – down to earth – cost effective repairs offering either genuine or same quality parts so that you do not compromise your Mercedes heritage or reliability. Tel: 01406 422457fleetroadgarage.co.uk
Top Bottom