Brand New Member Advice Please Re Oil Cooler E 280

[JOHNNY MCK]

A long story short. I am a musician and need an estate.When my beautiful pride and joy C 200 (93) was hit and written off in March. I tried not to cry and bought an E 280 Estate(94). The car drove nicely although it did Pink!
The AC didn't work and I was to travel to France so had it repaired.
Everything seemed fine and I must admit because I was in convoy I was averaging 80 mph.When in France I tried the AC for the first time and then an hour later on The Periferique Paris the engine overheated.I caught it in time.
Put maybe 5-7 pints of water in and put the heater on Hot full Blast and limped on to the Dordoigne.At speed not a problem-in traffic on with the heater.
I limped around for two weeks and then the 900 miles home.
Straight to a garage - I had been advised that because there was oil in the water system (emulsification) it was very probably a head gasket.
As ignorant mechanically as I am I did understand this. I have also been told by my petrol head friends that the E280 is one of the finer cars ever produced by MB and any problem in the lower part of the engine is unlikely.It had not been pushing out smoke.
After two weeks off the road -the head crack tested and skimmedand head gasket replaced I collected it last Friday.It drove beauitfully - no pinking and
smooth as silk. Unfortunately yesterday I found on a short journeythe engine overheated again.I found oil in the water-masses of it.However the engine oil doesn't seem low.
I returned it to the garage- who are good people I am sure and are keen to solve the problem.I have been told that it can now only be an Oil cooler fitted to this engine that may be cracked. Other than that it can only be the bottom of the engine and therefore basically a scrapper.Can anyone please give me some hope or alternative.I believe the mechanic is a good and experienced artisan -Is it at all possible that the gasket was faulty- is it woorth stripping it down again. There has been mention of bypassing the oil cooler to see if this is the fault.I would be very obliged for any advice.Thank you

 

[JOHNNY MCK]

I am Sorry it appears I bored everyone to death with the last.
Johnny

 

[psmart]

I am Sorry it appears I bored everyone to death with the last.
Johnny

Hi Johnny, and welcome. Dont worry, sometime the forums is packed out with peeps scrambling for airtime, sometimes its dead quite, like tonight!

Your problem sounds bad. There was a problem with auto boxes sharing the same radiator as the water coolant, which leaked, rendering the auto-box in need of an overhaul. This showed itself as a drivetrain problem though.

So long as your engine hasnt severly overheated and there is sufficient oil, your in with a good chance. Emulsification could be caused by a head gasket, or any junction where the oil system meets the cooling system. A pressure test will indicate if there is a leak. I wont comment any further as there are a lot of damned good peeps on this forum who know the 280 well. It may take a while for a reply, but in the meantime, just do a search on E280's.

 

[JOHNNY MCK]

Hi Psmart,
thank you for that and your time.I understand that the head was pressure tested-or crack tested I think it was called . The head skimmed and this appeared fine. So you don't think this problem originates from the Auto box then,and there is a possibility that it may be this Oil Cooler.
In case I have to say goodbye to this baby I am now searching around for another MB. I have seen a Vito 280 Ambiante - it is the size I need and a reasonable price. I have heard that the production of these vans have not got the spec and quality of the older Mercs.What do you think? Johnny

 

[television]

Though there was an issue with the gearbox oil cooler, this appears to be an engine oil cooler problem. I can check this out tomorrow to see if this was an issue.

malcolm

 

[Bolide]

The 280, and I think all W124s, has a transmission cooler that is part of the radiator so there's an opportunity for the transmission oil and coolant to mix if that part corrodes through

The E300 Diesel has a water feed to a heat exchanger in the sump. I don't think it's an oil cooler, I think it's to bring the water system up to temperature more quickly when cold - but I could be wrong. If that corrodes - and I've known it to happen - then the engine oil & water mix in the same way that they do if the cylinder head gasket fails. Whether the 280 has a similar heat exchanger I don't know but it's very obvious on an E300 Diesel - it's on the driver's side of the sump and has two water pipes going to it

I don't think the 280 has one. I think your problem was a blown cylinder head gasket and that it has failed again. If the CHG has failed then I'd expect to see a leakdown test or compression test confirm that. I'd also expect the cooling system to be pressurised (by engine exhaust gas) when the engine runs

I'd ask the garage what the cylinder compressions were immediately before the CHG was replaced, what they were immediately after and what they are now. Armed with that a diagnosis of the state of the CHG should be possible

Bear in mind that once fixed the car will be infinitely preferable to a Vito

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[JOHNNY MCK]

Though there was an issue with the gearbox oil cooler, this appears to be an engine oil cooler problem. I can check this out tomorrow to see if this was an issue.

malcolm

Hi Malcolm Thank you for reading the long blurb and your ideas I would be very appreciative of any further info you may find from your sources Friday.
Congratulations by the way on your new 500 it looks phenominal and only ever
a dream to me but I'll be very happy with my old 280 if I can get her back on the road.So good luck and enjoy the pleasures of driving her.
The only little bit of advice I can pass is try and keep out of carparks.
The home of dents, scratches and fail to stop drunks.
Johnny

 

[JOHNNY MCK]

Thank you

The 280, and I think all W124s, has a transmission cooler that is part of the radiator so there's an opportunity for the transmission oil and coolant to mix if that part corrodes through

The E300 Diesel has a water feed to a heat exchanger in the sump. I don't think it's an oil cooler, I think it's to bring the water system up to temperature more quickly when cold - but I could be wrong. If that corrodes - and I've known it to happen - then the engine oil & water mix in the same way that they do if the cylinder head gasket fails. Whether the 280 has a similar heat exchanger I don't know but it's very obvious on an E300 Diesel - it's on the driver's side of the sump and has two water pipes going to it

I don't think the 280 has one. I think your problem was a blown cylinder head gasket and that it has failed again. If the CHG has failed then I'd expect to see a leakdown test or compression test confirm that. I'd also expect the cooling system to be pressurised (by engine exhaust gas) when the engine runs

I'd ask the garage what the cylinder compressions were immediately before the CHG was replaced, what they were immediately after and what they are now. Armed with that a diagnosis of the state of the CHG should be possible

Bear in mind that once fixed the car will be infinitely preferable to a Vito

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

Thank you Nick-You have given me hope.When you say "I'd also expect the cooling system to be pressurised (by engine exhaust gas) when the engine runs" Do you think a symptom of that maybe that the emulsified oil is passed
out through the cap when slightly loosened?Because I did notice this when I took it to the garage after a short 5 mile run.
The last I heard was that the mechanic has the oil cooler out of the engine and dismantled on his bench.However with his eyes alone he cannot detect a fault.It has been suggested that it is unlikely to see a fault merely with the eye as these components work under immense pressure.
I have had alook at your web site- it is very very well made and the Silver Estate on the home page is my dream.I enjoyed having a read through the information pages too.Its now in my faves.
Thanks again Nick
Johnny

 

[JOHNNY MCK]

Thank you

The 280, and I think all W124s, has a transmission cooler that is part of the radiator so there's an opportunity for the transmission oil and coolant to mix if that part corrodes through

The E300 Diesel has a water feed to a heat exchanger in the sump. I don't think it's an oil cooler, I think it's to bring the water system up to temperature more quickly when cold - but I could be wrong. If that corrodes - and I've known it to happen - then the engine oil & water mix in the same way that they do if the cylinder head gasket fails. Whether the 280 has a similar heat exchanger I don't know but it's very obvious on an E300 Diesel - it's on the driver's side of the sump and has two water pipes going to it

I don't think the 280 has one. I think your problem was a blown cylinder head gasket and that it has failed again. If the CHG has failed then I'd expect to see a leakdown test or compression test confirm that. I'd also expect the cooling system to be pressurised (by engine exhaust gas) when the engine runs

I'd ask the garage what the cylinder compressions were immediately before the CHG was replaced, what they were immediately after and what they are now. Armed with that a diagnosis of the state of the CHG should be possible

Bear in mind that once fixed the car will be infinitely preferable to a Vito

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

Thank you Nick-You have given me hope.When you say "I'd also expect the cooling system to be pressurised (by engine exhaust gas) when the engine runs" Do you think a symptom of that maybe that the emulsified oil is passed
out through the cap when slightly loosened?Because I did notice this when I took it to the garage after a short 5 mile run.
The last I heard was that the mechanic has the oil cooler out of the engine and dismantled on his bench.However with his eyes alone he cannot detect a fault.It has been suggested that it is unlikely to see a fault merely with the eye as these components work under immense pressure.
I have had alook at your web site- it is very very well made and the Silver Estate on the home page is my dream.I enjoyed having a read through the information pages too.Its now in my faves.
I would be interested to hear more with regard to the Vito. I appreciate your comment.Is it that they are not built with MB parts , or parts that are not up to the old very high standard quality of a Mercedes.I take it their lifespan is not considered in the region of say a E280?
Thanks again Nick
Johnny

 

[Bolide]

Typically when the CHG goes the exhaust gases force their way through the gasket failure to the water system. Often you can see a stream of bubbles coming up through the water if you remove the header tank cap at idle. If the gasket has well and truly gone then revving the engine will blow water out of the header tank. Another test is to put a pressure meter on the cooling system and watch the pressure as the engine heats up. If the pressure rises significantly as the engine is revved then this again may be pressurisation of the system via exhaust gases. None of this will be news to anyone competent to replace a CHG

WRT the Vito I think it's fair to say that the V Class was not particularly revered even within MB. But the problems set in across the model range post-1996 when many new models had been engineered down to a price

Pre-1996 Mercedes are generally simpler, better built and more reliable than later cars but they are getting older. CHG failure is common to many cars. The Mercedes sixes (280, 320) tend to have them replaced due to oil leaks rather than outright failure. In your case you may never know what caused it fo fail - if in fact it did

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[JOHNNY MCK]

Thanks Nick-my Fingers Are Crossed For The News Over The Weekend.
Johnny

 

[Ian B Walker]

There are only 2 oil coolers on a 280E. One is for the steering and the other is integral with the radiator for the g/ box. Unless of course someone has retro fitted a cooler for the engine oil. A compression test is needed to determine where the fault is. I have known instances of the liners cracking causing similar problems.

 

[kth286]

All

There is an engine oil cooler, which is located behind the front left-hand wing panel.

Regards

 

[big x]

All

There is an engine oil cooler, which is located behind the front left-hand wing panel.

Regards

Can't see one listed on the EPC,my E320 1994 certainly doesn't have one as standard.
All I can find is a watercooled oil filter assembly for ultra hot markets (third diagram down)

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...GM=717.450&CT=M&cat=520&SID=18&SGR=045&SGN=02

adam

 

[Bolide]

There is an engine oil cooler, which is located behind the front left-hand wing panel.

I've seen this on a 300-24 valve but not on any other W124 estates. That car was ex-Arrows F1 so maybe it was retrofitted. It's not listed as an option for that car via the RU website but that doesn't prove anything one way or the other

The power steering oil cooler, as Ian so correctly mentions, is that curious loop of tubing in front of the radiator

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[big x]

I've seen this on a 300-24 valve but not on any other W124 estates. That car was ex-Arrows F1 so maybe it was retrofitted. It's not listed as an option for that car via the RU website but that doesn't prove anything one way or the other

The power steering oil cooler, as Ian so correctly mentions, is that curious loop of tubing in front of the radiator

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

It's not listed on the current EPC cd however I do seem to remember an additional oil cooler is listed in the original options pricelist leaflet...I do have one but can't find it.
It's currious that it's not shown in the M104 AMG parts section.


adam

 

[Bolide]

...I do seem to remember an additional oil cooler is listed in the original options pricelist leaflet...

I'm sure there would have been one as an option. It's the kind of thing Mercedes would have done, I think, and I bet it was ordered for the Arrows car

I had one estate with a beautiful steel sumpguard. Straight off the factory options list [481 - undershields] but not what you'd expect to see on a W124 estate!

Back on topic, I'd love to hear the outcome of Johnny's latest garage visit


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk