Brexit

[davemercedes]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41774817

What the actual ****ing ****????

No doubt that is covered by legal contract or treaty. Just another thing that the politicians who went on the junkets etc didn't sort out...
- you know, the people we now expect to get a good exit deal.

And Bumbling Boris, Farage et al never mentioned that (nor the exit bill) while preaching all about "Project Fear" and "taking back control" i.e.: what we already had but didn't do properly or sacked the civil servants who should have controlled things (like the non EU immigration numbers, - ask Mother Theresa).

 

[davemercedes]

Well its nice to see the pound recovering against the Euro over the past week (even though its slipped against the dollar at the same time).
Not so good that interest rates will probably go up as a result.

The dollar seems to be more affected by the latest tweets from POTUS than business happenings - but it would help us all if the £ stayed up (fingers crossed) - we really need a year or more of recovery to improve our buying capabilities abroad so that it ripples down to what we all buy in the shops etc. And if the view is that hiking the rate will lift the pound, it will probably happen because it will lower what has to be paid out for the Brexit bill.

At least the uplift will probably only be 0.25% but although it would probably help SWMBO and me, I read that that would inflate the average mortgage by £15 a month and I'd rather not see family/mortgage payers struggling.

 

[AMGeed]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41774817

What the actual ****ing ****????

The "final" Brexit bill should take this sum into account and remove it before paying up.
Bl00dy cheek!

 

[M80]

What ever we might pay the eu for future responsibilities I would still like to understand what we 'will' get for it.
If I leave the sailing club I don't pay for the future even if I did vote to buy more sailing stack.

 

[LostKiwi]

What ever we might pay the eu for future responsibilities I would still like to understand what we 'will' get for it.
If I leave the sailing club I don't pay for the future even if I did vote to buy more sailing stack.

Would you expect to pay something if you'd committed to pay some of the cost?

 

[M80]

Would you expect to pay something if you'd committed to pay some of the cost?

With continued membership we all pay our membership fees, that is the commitment.
If the committee in their wisdom decide to spend money on the strength of anticipated future revenues then the club, or the creditors, would be left to carry the responsibility.
Where we, the UK, have committed to pay some of the cost then that should be fairly easy to quantify and destroys the eu stance of requiring an agreed settlement as the initial hurdle.
But if we are to pay for 'commitments' then we should expect some benefit from that payment. In fact we should continue to hold equity in the investments already contributed towards, especially if we are still considered to have an ongoing responsibility.

If I'm going to pay towards a new club boat I want some use of it.

 

[LostKiwi]

It's not a club though. It's an organisation the UK signed up to and has benefited from since 1973. The organisation has forward commitments that were agreed to by the UK on the understanding the UK would honour those commitments. To call it a club is a gross oversimplification.

 

[davemercedes]

Would you expect to pay something if you'd committed to pay some of the cost?

As I said above, it's all down to the politicians who took the gravy and signed the treaties. Funny there was so little public knowledge about our position when "we" signed up and invested. Funnier still that neither the Quitter nor Remainer campaigns highlighted this - just like they never highlighted our fixed commitments within what is now nicknamed the "divorce bill"....

A new scandal is highlighted on the Beeb today says: PFI: five firms avoid tax despite £2bn profits with quotes:

Ms Hillier, MP for Hackney South and Shoreditch - also expressed concern at the concentration of so many public assets in so few hands offshore. "I think nobody foresaw this sale of the debt on to companies and this conglomeration. She went on to describe UK public assets as a "cash cow" adding: "Now there is a very big gap between the owner of the debt and the service and organisation paying for it."

That's just the trouble. We didn't know/we didn't realise etc...

I remain constantly concerned that the same breed of people are "trusted" to bring back an EU exit deal having (all) cocked up the referendum information in the beginning. But in two years time they'll a;; be queueing up for their knighthoods etc.

 

[M80]

It's not a club though. It's an organisation the UK signed up to and has benefited from since 1973. The organisation has forward commitments that were agreed to by the UK on the understanding the UK would honour those commitments. To call it a club is a gross oversimplification.

Any commitments will be quantifiable. As will be the legal liability. So if this is all set in the stone of the eu treaties why is this so complicated for the eu to give a precise figure for the closing of the account, or indeed any ongoing financial responsibility?
"Give us a 100 billion before we talk any more" is clearly without calculation, it's just blackmail and of no relevance to any agreements previously entered into.

 

[LostKiwi]

Any commitments will be quantifiable. As will be the legal liability. So if this is all set in the stone of the eu treaties why is this so complicated for the eu to give a precise figure for the closing of the account, or indeed any ongoing financial responsibility?
"Give us a 100 billion before we talk any more" is clearly without calculation, it's just blackmail and of no relevance to any agreements previously entered into.

No it's an opening gambit. A bit like Mayhem's no deal shenanigans.

 

[M80]

No it's an opening gambit. A bit like Mayhem's no deal shenanigans.

But the country is so angry at the lack of progress in the negotiations, blaming our negotiators.

Corbyn and his cronies are jumping on every vague opportunity to shout about the incompetence of the Tory team.
The media are continually looking to show the team up as incompetent.

It really is a shame that so many can't recognise the eu for preventing the actual negotiation progress, as you do.

 

[LostKiwi]

But the country is so angry at the lack of progress in the negotiations, blaming our negotiators.

Corbyn and his cronies are jumping on every vague opportunity to shout about the incompetence of the Tory team.
The media are continually looking to show the team up as incompetent.

It really is a shame that so many can't recognise the eu for preventing the actual negotiation progress, as you do.

On the contrary.
I do see our politicians as being unable to get thing moving. The EU has said 100bn and Theresa doesn't appear to have been willing to discuss it unless Inn The context of a bigger deal. As the EU is the stronger party in these negotiations (contrary to what many Brexit voters believe) she is just creating delays which she can't really afford and they know that.

 

[davemercedes]

On the contrary.
I do see our politicians as being unable to get thing moving. The EU has said 100bn and Theresa doesn't appear to have been willing to discuss it unless Inn The context of a bigger deal. As the EU is the stronger party in these negotiations (contrary to what many Brexit voters believe) she is just creating delays which she can't really afford and they know that.

Yup... Like I said on day ONE:

- She will come back with what she is given.
- First she will claim it as a victory, then it will be downgraded to "the best we could get".
- Then she'll be made a dame...

And we'll still all be in this "together"...
- except....

 

[davemercedes]

But the country is so angry at the lack of progress in the negotiations, blaming our negotiators.

Corbyn and his cronies are jumping on every vague opportunity to shout about the incompetence of the Tory team.
The media are continually looking to show the team up as incompetent.

It really is a shame that so many can't recognise the eu for preventing the actual negotiation progress, as you do.

But most thinking people can recognise that the present incumbents are failing dismally and those who reconsider the referendum vote give a greater percentage to staying than leaving. Maybe they think they were lied to... ?

A YouGov survey found that only 42% of respondents think it is right to leave the EU, compared with 47% who think it is wrong. This is the biggest gap in favour of remaining in the EU since the referendum in June.

NB: Before people say this is a left wing article, I confirm it's a Graduian report but there are plenty of others...
- but there are none so blind as those who don't want to see! :-

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...it-poll-which-suggests-public-regret-decision

 

[M80]

But most thinking people

You just can't stop yourself from insulting can you?

 

[AMGeed]

But most thinking people can recognise that the present incumbents are failing dismally and those who reconsider the referendum vote give a greater percentage to staying than leaving. Maybe they think they were lied to... ?

A YouGov survey found that only 42% of respondents think it is right to leave the EU, compared with 47% who think it is wrong. This is the biggest gap in favour of remaining in the EU since the referendum in June.

It makes not one bit of difference what percentage of people have changed their mind about leaving since the refendum. We are leaving and that's that. It could be 100% and it wouldn't change things. It's done so why more opinion polls?

Who was lied to? More like product fear from the likes of Carney who has been proved wrong again and again.
Nobody was given the true facts before the referendum because quite simply nobody knew what would happen.

As for the "present incumbents failing dismally", are you privy to the discussions or taking the word of Tusk and co' as gospel?[/QUOTE]

 

[Yugguy]

Dave you're boring now. Insulting language then you whine if someone insults you back.

I'm not surprised yougov poles show a leaning towards remain given their likely target demographic.

 

[davemercedes]

Dave you're boring now. Insulting language then you whine if someone insults you back.

I'm not surprised yougov poles show a leaning towards remain given their likely target demographic.

- What gives you the authority to categorise the yougov posts/target demographic?
- Why is it insulting to point out the obvious?

- If I missed something you'd all be on to me like a ton of bricks!

And people who do think about the actual facts will recognise that (to revise the above quote) : Corbyn and his cronies are jumping on every opportunity to shout about the incompetence of the Tory team - because it's true! And the media are only able to consistently show the team up as incompetent because they are!

Think about it!
- Your future, mine and our children's future are in the hands of this cabinet "team" which most people believe are handling the whole thing poorly!

- Just go and see what's actually happening to our country and our future!

 

[AMGeed]

- Your future, mine and our children's future are in the hands of this cabinet "team" which most people believe are handling the whole thing poorly!

Who are most people Dave?
The left wing Guardian/Mirror/Independent/Observer readers who will naturally bitch at whatever the government do?

 

[davemercedes]

Oh no...I'm taking the attitude of our highest government minister(PM) which has varied from totally vague (red, white and blue waffle etc) through offensive and aggressive ("no deal is better" etc) and lately what appeared as demeaning, plus the behaviour of the other spoilt children in the cabinet who can't agree what day of the week it is, let alone what is the best strategy to achieve a lasting and working relationship with those they choose to refer to as our "European partners" while digging ever bigger holes.

Frankly, as someone who voted Tory almost forever (over 50 years) - I must say that from the beginning of this shamble I was initially horrified at any idea of Corbyn and his lot taking over Downing Street... But having seen what the Tories are doing to our country today and our future position in Europe and the world tomorrow I'm almost of the opinion that they might not do as bad.

And in the meantime, I wonder how many people think the USA is going to bail us out on trade?
- I wish they would but they certainly won't!