Buying a E-class estate: issues?

[pb33]

Hi There,

I'm looking for a solid, safe and reliable motorway cruiser. 15-20K miles per year - all M4. Budget 10-14K.

Refinement is my priority - minimal engine, wind noise. Willing to sacrife MPG for this.

I'm rather prejudiced against diesels (having just sold a Range Rover 2.5DSE, which I hated). So, narrowed my search to 2001-2003 E280 V6.

Is this model my best best?
What should I look for on an inspection/test drive?
Is RUST a serious problem? (I've read the threads and its minded me to avoid the E-class all together.) Is this an over-reaction?
Cheers,
Paul

 

[Stulc]

I have a 99' V reg C280 V6 sport auto est which is a great cruiser, if you dont (which you obviously dont) dont mind it being a bit of a guzzler. About town I think I'm getting about 25-8 mpg opwn rd roughly 33-5 I'm not a fast driver town/open rd.

Insection wise....I dont really know.....but I just looked for the general stuff eg rattle's ect ect underneath, listening and looking for warning light's. I bought it because I wanted an auto est, but someone will say more shortly.

I'd say rust is serious enough on anything if not treated right away.

 

[jberks]

If you are looking at the 280, I presume you are looking at a late T210 model. By 02/03 they had pretty much sorted the corrosion problems (though an 01 may still be a bit borderline) so that shouldn't be too much of a concern and if its not a T211 then the early gremlins of the new model shouldn't be a problem either. Do check for corrosion under the door seals and around the boot lock. If it has FMBSH then MB will fix any corrosion FOC anyway so its not a reason to steer clear. There were some real horror stories but most, like mine, were pretty insignificant and with MB picking up the bill, it was a nice way to get rid of some irritating scratches. If it is a nightmare one, it will be pretty obvious anyway.

All E's are great motorway cruisers, even the 4cylinder ones. The V6's are electric motor smooth. Very refined, very quiet. However, before you completely reject the diesel, do have a spin in a 320cdi - it may surprise you.

 

[pb33]

sorry, newbie: what's t211?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

Yes there are issues with the 210 which you can read about on the forum, better to be prepared when your viewing

I wouldn't let your experience of Landrover diesels put you off the latest CDi engined E class.

The type of motoring you are talking about is ideal for a diesel merc. My 320CDi is a joy on the motorway and is only turning over at 2.200 rpm at 70. The engine is happier on longer runs and is it is quite noticable how the engine smooths out after a series of shorter runs once you hit the motorway.

The engine is a gem and as responsive as a petrol, the power output is immense and will surprise, it certainly did me. After 1800rpm the performance is almost on a par with the E55. Economy is also very good, although as you say it's not an issue for you, after a thirsty 300TE, it certainly was for me.

Hope this helps with your dilemma.

 

[clive williams]

sorry, newbie: what's t211?

pb,

The T210 and T211 are the model Nos for the E-Class(e) estate (T - touring). The 210 was produced up to 2002 and the 211 thereafter.

I have a T210 with the 6 cylinder 3.2ltr diesel with a power box which reputably puts the power up to 245bhp with torque of 380 lbft. When nailed this motor moves! In the mid-range I'm sure it will give my 500E (326bhp, 350lbft V8) a run for its money. Its a joy on the motorway and is in its true element. The handling along the lanes is a bit ponderous but keeping the power in makes it move satisfactorily. It has the cavernous capacity of a truck, or my wife's shopping.

I have a feeling that the higher mileage vehicles (~20k mls/year) are less susceptible to rust as I suppose they keep themselves dry. Mine has 105K mls on the clock and apart from the stone chips on the front and paint blistering on the rear door pull is rust free, not like some reported on the forum.

If I was in the market for an estate again I would definitely go for an E-Class with a 3.2 diesel motor, nothing else comes close. I would look for a high mileage young car for the budget as mileage is less of an issue with MB mechanicals and the later ones are an quality improvement on the early 210s

Last thought stay away from the EU4 motors.

rolleyes: I wonder if the E400CDI T211 is available?)

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[DC_insider]

pb,

The T210 and T211 are the model Nos for the E-Class(e) estate (T - touring). The 210 was produced up to 2002 and the 211 thereafter.

Actually the correct designation for the any estate variant of a Mercedes-Benz is S.

The current E-Class Estate is S211. The previous model was S210.

The only current model using the T designation is the B-Class (T245).

 

[the zacster]

pb,

If I was in the market for an estate again I would definitely go for an E-Class with a 3.2 diesel motor, nothing else comes close. I would look for a high mileage young car for the budget as mileage is less of an issue with MB mechanicals and the later ones are an quality improvement on the early 210s

Last thought stay away from the EU4 motors.

Clive - I'm interested in your comments re the 3.2 and the EU4 engines: I'm also looking to buy a used (diesel) estate. Originally was thinking of a newsed 280CDI, but am concerned about the EU4's MPG... so was thinking of getting an EU3 320CDI instead. I'd be keen why you'd recommend against the EU4 engine? Thanks

 

[pb33]

Diesel pros/cons?

Thanks for the feedback.

I haven't done the maths, but with diesel 5 p / litre more expensive than petrol, is it REALLY significantly more economical to run a 320CDI vs 280 V6 (assuming 15K MOTORWAY miles per year?)
paul

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

My estimate is:
E280 Motorway Ave = 30mpg
15K div 30 = 500gal @ £3.90gal = £1950

E320CDi Motorway Ave = 38mpg
15K div 38 = 394gal @ £4.13gal = £1627

Saving £323 a year.

You may get a few more miles out of a 280 per gal but they are not known for their frugality. So on that reckoning the £1K saved on fuel every 3 years will go a long way towards service costs. Plus, you will get the benefit of a lower revs and extra power thrown in.

 

[Stulc]

What's wrong the C class eg my 280....no one mention's it.

 

[jberks]

Thanks for the feedback.

I haven't done the maths, but with diesel 5 p / litre more expensive than petrol, is it REALLY significantly more economical to run a 320CDI vs 280 V6 (assuming 15K MOTORWAY miles per year?)
paul

It is a tricky one. I did battle with this myself recently when I swapped my E240 petrol for the E270CDI. I do a little more at 25k pa and I now fill up once a week for £60-70 as against twice a week for £40-45 so there is a definite saving. So if I save around £1000 -£1500 per year on fuel yours should be around £750-£1,000 I guess. Then there is that smug feeling when trundling down the motorway in a big, quiet, comfy, powerful merc knowing that your mpg is the same as that bloke rattling along in his punto.

The point about EU3/4 is relevant. If you do get a diesel try to get an EU3. The EU4 is just more thirsty and assuming its not a company car (tax @ £40k on a £15k car I assume not!) there is no benefit.

I did consider the cost difference in that I paid a lot more to get a diesel in the first place and would have saved a few £000 if I'd bought another 240 instead but thats depreciation and I should get an equivalent amount back when I change as no one wants a used v6 petrol merc (got bugger all for my clean 69k 240 and 4 months on its still for sale at the used dealer that ended up with it), - http://users.autoexposure.co.uk/cla.../is/remotemanaged/AETA90938/AETV644663_1a.jpg if anyone fancies a loved 240!- but everyone wants a diesel merc no matter what the mileage is. Actually my Dad as already bagged first refusal!

 

[clive williams]

Clive - I'm interested in your comments re the 3.2 and the EU4 engines: I'm also looking to buy a used (diesel) estate. Originally was thinking of a newsed 280CDI, but am concerned about the EU4's MPG... so was thinking of getting an EU3 320CDI instead. I'd be keen why you'd recommend against the EU4 engine? Thanks

Zacster, The mileage issue indicates to me that the engine is strangled and therefore IMO inefficient. It would frustrate me to drive a car knowing that it was not giving its best. I honestly wonder whether the lower emissions compensate for the extra (excessive) fuel consumption?

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[clive williams]

Thanks for the feedback.

I haven't done the maths, but with diesel 5 p / litre more expensive than petrol, is it REALLY significantly more economical to run a 320CDI vs 280 V6 (assuming 15K MOTORWAY miles per year?)
paul

Paul,

My recommendation of the diesel was not primarily on the cost savings issue. It's that the diesel and in particular, the 3.2ltr in the 210 Estate is wholly suited to it. The characteristics of the engine and the dynamics of the vehicle fit like a latex glove.

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[pb33]

My primary need is a car that will cruise at 78 mph on the M4 for 3 hours and give me the ultimate in quiet and relaxed driving. I read a lot that the 320CDI is "a bit noisy". Does it give away much in terms of refinement to the petrol under these driving conditions?

I need to test-drive both, of course, but opinions would be appreciated.

Many thanks!

Paul

 

[clive williams]

My primary need is a car that will cruise at 78 mph on the M4 for 3 hours and give me the ultimate in quiet and relaxed driving. I read a lot that the 320CDI is "a bit noisy". Does it give away much in terms of refinement to the petrol under these driving conditions?

I need to test-drive both, of course, but opinions would be appreciated.

Many thanks!

Paul

Paul,

Cruising at around 80mph (illegal but what the hell) I would not be aware that it is diesel. But, hit the loud pedel to move quickly out into faster moving traffic and you certainly notice the torque. Three hours on the motorway is nothing - pan continental trips are its forte. At an expected 40+ mpg at this speed you can go for an easy 650mls (9hrs without a pee! hummm)

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[jberks]

Id have to say that true, no CDI is as refined or quiet as the Merc v6 petrol.
If you really don't care about fuel costs or depreciation then go for the 320 petrol. That said, if you really don't care, get an E420/500 as the v8 makes even the v6 feel crude. However, at speed, all the CDIs, even the 220 4 pot are quiet and refined. Open the throttle and you'll still tell its a diesel but cruising along its basically silent.

As I said above, the smug feeling from the 40mpg plus the sheer grunt of the diesel when you squeaze the throttle more than compensates for fractional increase in noise and vibration.

 

[pb33]

Talking of service costs, how do these differ petrol vs diesel?
Paul

 

[jberks]

Given that diesels have more filters etc and plugs last 60k+ I believe diesels are a tad more expensive. That said, if you put in fully synth oil and do 15k motorway miles per year you could expect to only need a service every 15 months or so.

 

[davebox]

Given that diesels have more filters etc and plugs last 60k+ I believe diesels are a tad more expensive. That said, if you put in fully synth oil and do 15k motorway miles per year you could expect to only need a service every 15 months or so.

I do not understand this thing with diesel's being more expensive to service. Lets do the math:
Petrol Car. Every 6 - 10K ( I like to service a car at 6K)
Fuel filter
Air filter
Pollen Filter
Oil filter
Oil
Spark Plugs (I change plugs every other service)
and any other items needed ware and tare.
Diesel Car. Every 6 - 14K (depends on which merc you run)
Fuel filter (ok this is usually a little more - by a couple of quid)
Air filter
Pollen Filter
Oil filter
Oil
Heater plugs where aplic. ( generally last about 60k - no prob)

So the parts should cost no more!

I service my Astra for around the £40.00 using bits from my local motor factors. A local garage will cost £30.00 to do the work + they make a little on the bits so £70 - £80 covers the whole service
A mate of mine owns a C180 (Y reg). Merc wanted over £300.00 for his service
He bought the parts including the Oil from Merc for £80.00
and did the service himself.
None of us like to be ripped off, £220.00 labour is far to much for service charges. Look around and get a better deal. I'm looking at the moment for someone to service my 04 C220 CDI, I will not be paying stupid prices.
If merc cannot do a deal, Ill take my custom and vote with my feet.