C220 CDi Auto Clutch (51 plate)

[Blakey]

Hello All,

On the drive home tonight I noticed the clutch was beginning to slip when pulling away. This manifested itself as a longer than usual delay for the car to gain momentum and higher engine revs. Can anyone provide any info on whether this is likely to be the clutch plate or if there are any other known issues with other components that could be the cause? I did top up the engine oil yesterday but can't see how this would have an effect unless there is a leak which has somehow found it's way to the clutch housing.

If the clutch does require replacement would this be a main dealer job, and if so what sort of cost might I be looking at?

I hope someone can give me some helpful advice.

Many thanks,

Blakey.

 

[BABASON]

c class manuals suffer from loss of clutch pedal due to dirty brake fluid and the slave cylinder losing pressure due to the dirty fluid. if the fluid is okay and the clutch is definately slipping then the gearbox will have to come out for further examination of the clutch and release bearing which is hydraulic.

any competent mechanic should be able to do it. time you will be charged will depend on how easy it is to narrow down the fault, but book time to remove and install gearbox is 4.0 hours

 

[Blakey]

Thanks Babason, but this is an auto box!

 

[hardtop]

it may be a fault with the maf prob best to get the fault codes read by mb or a indy

 

[Common Rail]

Could you have inadvertantly toggled between "C" and "S" mode - they start off in different gears. Just a thought....

 

[BABASON]

sorry what a muppet I am:-x

 

[Blakey]

@hardtop

Definitely not the MAF. Replaced as a possible cause of a previous problem about a year ago. There's plenty of power from the engine and she runs really smooth, it feels more as though there's a problem with the delivery of the power to the transmission. That's why I initially thought clutch.

@common rail

The W/S setting was the first thing I looked at but no, still in S. Thanks anyway.

@BABASON

No Worries!

To describe the symptoms again a bit clearer, the engine runs smoothly and without hesitation, but the takeup of the power is slow and gradual, almost as though on a hill start, and the revs are noticeably higher than normal at pull away.

It's definitely not sticking in gear, or in limp home mode.

I drove it again briefly earlier and the problem seemed to have gone, - it may be that it only comes on after running for a while.

I'll report back after giving it a longer run but in the mean time if anyone has any suggestions I'd be pleased to hear them.

Thanks all,

Blakey.

 

[djb]

gear oil level ?

the revs are noticeably higher than normal at pull away.


If you try to drive off on a hill, do the revs rise much higher than usual? what about on overun? revs drop to alower than normal speed?

My first thought would be gear box oil level. (not full torque converter, poor drive)
next from previous experiance with auto boxes, do you get a longer delay when going from fwd to take up in reverse? (good indication of worn bands etc)

If no change in the fwd to rev, afraid off to be pressure tested,as might be numerous things from an internal leak, such as the torqueconverter inner seal to wear etc.

 

[psmart]

Just an idea, have you tried changing gear manually (assuming its tiptronic) or tried engaging the Cruise Control? Why, because this is the first sign we noticed when the ML autobox started to fail. If its locking in gear, even momentarily (the EGS can lock the box in gear, sometimes resets during the drive, other times requires an engine on?off to reset), get it to an autobox specialist as early diagnosis may prevent you from buying a new box.

 

[Blakey]

Thanks for the replies djb and psmart.

When I drove in to work this morning, I took it really gently and didn't notice anything untoward: - normal revs up hill etc, that is until I was decelerating at the slip road at the end of my journey (about 25miles) when there was quite a noticeable gear change at low speed (5-10mph). I came to a stop at the end of the slip road, then pulled away gently, the next gear change (2nd to 3rd?) was also quite noticeable, and the car stayed in the same gear till the end of my journey (about 1 mile) which I took really easy - about 45mph at 3000rpm.

The gearbox oil and filter were changed about 9 months ago by a main dealer, but I will check the level.

psmart - I have not tried to change gear manually but I did use cruise for a while this morning. - Everyrthing seemed ok then. But as I said earlier - seemed to lock in gear for the last mile or so.

Everything seems to be pointing to getting a specialist to look at it. Thanks for all your help.

Curiously I just had the steering alignment done (all 4 wheels) by the local main dealer and wonder if they may have knocked something.

It's not the first time I've felt less than satisfied with their work in the year that I've owned the car. After the first service I found the air filter housing hadn't been put back properly and I could see the edge of the air filter. The second was when I had the rear springs replaced and found the rear exhaust had not been put back into the rubber hangers. It's pretty shoddy given the hourly rate.

Blakey.

 

[psmart]

I was decelerating at the slip road at the end of my journey (about 25miles) when there was quite a noticeable gear change at low speed (5-10mph). I came to a stop at the end of the slip road, then pulled away gently, the next gear change (2nd to 3rd?) was also quite noticeable, and the car stayed in the same gear till the end of my journey (about 1 mile) which I took really easy - about 45mph at 3000rpm.

The gearbox oil and filter were changed about 9 months ago by a main dealer, but I will check the level.

Get it checked asap, the clonk is the same as mine and after reading the codes, there were quite a few, 1 related to the N3 turbine speed sensor, another to a mechanical fault in the box (there were 4 different errors over time), but the thud your experiencing is what I had and a final thud saw the box ruined. During the ADAC recovery of my vehicle I looked at the receipts from the last service, which was done by a dealer in Austria, and I noticed that they had replaced the seal for the electric cable on the box (something I had done 20,000 miles before) and I discovered that the box was over full with oil, so you could read anything into this, but the symptoms your having are what I had. Having a diagnostic system, I kept resetting the box 'learning' mode and the faults/thud would dissappear until many 1000's of miles later. One time the box went out of gear completely. It could be that you have a broken control plate, a faulty solenoid spring or a faulty solenoid.

One thing about dealers, they wont investigate, only quote part-changes, hence a specialist is the best course.

Post your location and maybe someone can recommend a good specialist or an indie with good knowledge.

 

[Blakey]

Thanks psmart.

I am in Brighton and I know of a gearbox specialist near Hove park. (Newtown Road I think) I've never had to use them before so I don't know what their reputation is. They've been there years so ok I guess.

If anyone knows otherwise please let me know.

Hopefully it's one of the more serviceable parts as you suggest, rather than a total rebuild.

Blakey.

 

[djb]

Sorry to hear of continued problem. If the vehicle has MB service history would suggest a visit to dealer for fault codes etc andtheir suggestions as to what they are going todo.(ie a contribuiton towards costs)

Was the gear oil change done by MB as only MB can supply the correct oil I believe.

 

[Blakey]

Sorry to hear of continued problem. If the vehicle has MB service history would suggest a visit to dealer for fault codes etc andtheir suggestions as to what they are going todo.(ie a contribuiton towards costs)

Was the gear oil change done by MB as only MB can supply the correct oil I believe.

The history is MB for the most part. It was MB that replaced the gear oil and strainer about 9-12 months ago.

I can't see MB paying anything towards it unless they over filled it. Then proving it would likely be a nightmare.

TBH I just want it back on the road as I rely on the car for work etc.

 

[glennc220]

ive noticed this also on mine, times its just like a clutch slipping, others it fine. Ive also notticed that mine takes about 10 seconds to select reverse gear

 

[television]

I have used and recommended the auto box repairers that belong to this FATE

At least 30 people have used them here and always a good report and not expensive

see if there is one near you number 5 in Hove is not too far

http://www.fedauto.co.uk/

 

[Ellsy Tanners]

Sounds like a low oil level or a speed sensor fault on the conductor plate which could cause your syptoms. A quick fault code check will show up the sensor if it is that.

 

[Blakey]

Thanks television, - the place in Hove - number 5 on the list is where the car is now. - I'll be phoning them later today to see how they're getting on.

Thanks also Ellsy Tanners, - you're giving me hope that I might not have to spend really big bucks to get this problem sorted.

 

[Blakey]

Oh absolute Hell!!!

Similar to Paul Rushton's post here...

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=41552

... I have been advised that I need a new box, rad and TC due to coolant fouling of the gear oil.

From what I can tell this is a design fault that MB know about but don't tell anybody.

My previous merc was 15+ years old before I got rid and it NEVER had a fault like this.

I'm so angry but fear it won't be worth kicking up a stink as I haven't had the car from new and for the 2 years the previous owner had it, it was not serviced by MB.

Do I have any chance of getting MB to stump up?

 

[psmart]

I feel for you, Ive had my ML from new and the list of things which have gone wrong is no joke. I forked out over 4grand to get mine back on the road after the box exploded and I hope to hell the dealership (Daimler AG here in Stuttgart) did not bodge on the Glycol test, albeit they have the request in writing, hand delivered and witnessed, so if mine goes again I have legal recourse. To replace the heat exchanger (different arrangement on the ML), they wanted 800 quid (60 for the part, rest labour)! If I had fitted new parts, as they wanted, the bill would be over 10 Grand!

There should be a big BIG warning on this board, made sticky, to warn members and potential Merc buyers of this extremely costly design fault.