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C250td swap

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by Mickeymayo, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. Mickeymayo

    Mickeymayo New Member

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    Co. Down
    Your Mercedes:
    C250td
    Hello, new to the forum.
    I'm here to ask everything about the 5 cylinder turbo derv engine in the c250td. I'm going to fit the engine and gearbox into a ford Capri 2.8i and use it as my everyday summer car.
    1. Is it an electrically controlled brain via fuel injection or mechanical fuel injection?
    2. Front or rear bowl sump?
    3.weight of engine?
    4. Dimensions of engine?
    That's all I can think that I need to know right now. Thanks for any info given
     
  2. CRH71

    CRH71 Senior Member

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    Location:
    Kent
    Your Mercedes:
    C250 TD
    AFAIK the C250TD is an electronic pump, and you'd need the ECU, CAN bus controller and EIS (Electronic Ignition Switch) as a bare minimum to make this work.

    Mine certainly is (1999 vintage) and I think it would be an awful lot of work to transfer the electronic gubbins and bits into another (non-Merc) car for little gain. The OM605 in standard format has approximately the same BHP as the 2.8 Cologne engine, albeit superior torque.

    You would be better converting the OM605 to a mechanical pump in the first instance, to get rid of the engine electronics (if memory serves, you'd need an OM603 pump) then use the engine in the Capri - you'd also have a little trouble mating the Ford gearbox to the Merc engine - you would probably have to make some sort of adaptor plate as there's nothing 'off the shelf' that I can think of.

    Can I make a suggestion? Register on STD (superturbodiesel.com) and look for a member there called "Mantahead" - he's converted an OM605 to a mechanical pump (amongst other modifications) and lives in the Emerald Isle too so might be a good starting point to advise/help on your project.

    Good luck with it.
     
  3. OP
    Mickeymayo

    Mickeymayo New Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    C250td
    What about the older 300td? I was talking to a merc specialist garage and heard there's 2 types of injection being electrical and mechanical so does that not include the pump? I was going to use the gearbox from the merc anyways. Is it a throttle cable or fly by wire? Cheers for the info
     
  4. CRH71

    CRH71 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    C250 TD
    The older 300TD, as I understand it, would be a much, much easier swap - IIRC it's an OM606 engine. That's all mechanical on the pump and the gearbox (dependent on model/year) is likely to be vacuum controlled, rather than all electronic.

    Again, dependent on year of the donor, the throttle is likely to be cable not FBW.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  5. OP
    Mickeymayo

    Mickeymayo New Member

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    C250td
    Dead on thanks. Want a derv engine that isn't stupidly slow and will run forever. None of the c250td's all mechanical?
     
  6. CRH71

    CRH71 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    C250 TD
    Not that I am aware of, unless you can find an older Merc with the 250TD engine in it (the older, boxy 124 series, although, given the relative weight of them most have been weighed in for scrap now so not that many left).

    Nothing to stop you converting the OM605 engine to mechanical pump and throttle, though - pretty much nuts and bolts stuff from what I could see over on STD.

    The 300TD (OM606) wasn't a particular slouch, either - if you can get one of those engines, you'll be laughing as it'll be relatively easy to stuff that in the Capri - mind you, the Merc box is a fair bit bigger than the MT75 manual in the Capri, so you'll probably need to do some fabrication work. You'll probably need to beef up the front suspension as well - the 606 is likely to be a fair bit beefier than the Cologne.

    Why not seriously consider one of the earlier Pug 2.5's? They were put in the Granada, if I recall - they gave the old Granny a good turn of speed in TD guise and went on forever. Not only that, because they were offered in the Ford body, any parts you need are likely to be availabe and will fit much easier than trying to put a non-Ford engine in the body!

    Another engine with a reputation for being fairly bulletproof, and originally RWD, is one of the Jap engines - I think it's the 2.8 from the Shogun/Pajero. Not the most powerful of lumps, but a good, solid 'plodder' that lasts and lasts.

    As with the OM605/606, both the others above can also run on SVO/Biodiesel quite happily.

    Mind you, another one that's just come to mind is the Vauxhall Omega/BMW 3&5-series 525TD engine of mid-90's vintage. That goes on forever - many a minicab in London with that engine in it and on it's way round the clock for the fifth time.....

    Definitely have a chat with the guy I mentioned on STD if you decide to convert the Merc 5-cylinder lump to mechanical pump. He's done this already and may be able to give some useful tips.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  7. OP
    Mickeymayo

    Mickeymayo New Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    C250td
    I'll find a 300td engine and gearbox or convert the c250 somehow. Want the merc engine myself. Won't be too hard sort the suspension
     
  8. turbopete

    turbopete Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    2010 '60' Ford Mondeo 2.0TDCi Zetec (sorry)
    capri was never available with the MT75 box as standard. it was the older, more robust (people say) type 9 box.

    as a capri afficionado though, i have to ask WHY you would want to do this to a 2.8i? and if you MUST do it, at least keep it with 6 cylinders under the lid!

    2.5 granada lump was a good unit, however and probably a better choice.
     
  9. spock500

    spock500 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    300TD, 1998
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  10. Bolide

    Bolide Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    BMW 525 Diesel Touring
    A diesel Capri... sounds like the worst of all worlds to me!

    I suspect that by the time you've finished it you'll wish you hadn't started and the value of an original Capri will have risen so much you'll be kicking yourself

    Nick Froome
     
  11. chizzel89

    chizzel89 Senior Member

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    Pembrokeshire
    Your Mercedes:
    Mercedes-Benz C250 Turbodiesel Sport Auto. Estate. 1998. 180,000 mls
    I've thought about this quite a few times since I sold my Capri Laser to get a C250 TD Sport but discounted it as I'm too poor to have two cars!

    I would do the transplant to a 1.6 laser though. As its already been said 2.8i Capris are worth a good bit now. Even clean Lasers fetch near £2k now. I got £1650 for my 1.6 laser three years ago!

    I would say that the C250 TD would be an ideal swap in Manual form. They are much rarer than the Autos but would save you a hell of a lot of messing with electronics. Plus you can get a cracking C250 TD with a good engine and box for as little as £200 these days if it is rusty or crash damaged.
    PLUS, they will run forever if you service them, are the highest performance old tech diesel around and are nice and pokey.

    They have a nice burbling sound too and roar nicely.

    I doubt that you would be able to fit a 6 cylinder in there as it would be too long.

    Your best bet is to find a manual C250 TD saloon (cheaper), and find a contact in Europe to sell you the fully mechanical injector pump off a 2.5ltr W124 Turbodiesel. This should not be hard or expensive. This would then be a straight nut and bolt swap onto your C250 engine.
    Also there;d be the added bonus of it running on WVO/ biodiesel, and with the fully mechanical pump you could wind up the turbo/ fit a bigger turbo and increase fueling to make it much more powerful than the Cologne engine in there now. GO FOR IT!
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012

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