Cloned Mercedes Sprinter

[johno2004]

Hi,

Any advice Apreciated.

I purchased a 06 Plate Mercedes Spinter 311cdi on Friday and today the police knocked on my door saying it is a cloned vehicle and upon a vehicle inspection they will seize the van and return it to former owners or insurance if claim has been paid out.

People that i purchased it from used a stolen v5 and were in a house that they did not live in so they cannot be traced ( suprise suprise ).

Does anyone know how i stand or am as i suspect £7400 out of pocket and fu*ked !!!!

 

[JEZ.S320L]

Hi,

Any advice Apreciated.

I purchased a 06 Plate Mercedes Spinter 311cdi on Friday and today the police knocked on my door saying it is a cloned vehicle and upon a vehicle inspection they will seize the van and return it to former owners or insurance if claim has been paid out.

People that i purchased it from used a stolen v5 and were in a house that they did not live in so they cannot be traced ( suprise suprise ).

Does anyone know how i stand or am as i suspect £7400 out of pocket and fu*ked !!!!

Sorry to hear of your problem. It does seem that you are/will be a victim - and £7400 out of pocket. It seems rather strange that they were in a house they didn't live in. Was it empty - or did anyone else actually live there? I am sure that the Police will be as keen as you are to track the scumbags down.

Sadly, this sort of scam seems quite common (according to various TV programmes).

 

[johno2004]

The police seem to think it was a furnished rented house as there is no one on electrol roll.

However the notts police confiscated the log book from me at the dvla office and were treating me as the criminal and never even gave me a crime no or incident number and kept ringing me to get under the van and check all relevent eng no etc putting my finger prints over the thieves, so no chance now of getting a clean print if there were any.

A shambles and the van is still on my drive and im in limbo waiting for them to contact me !!

 

[stumpy]

I am sorry to hear it but yes, you are up a gumtree with this. The police don't seem too interested in these things either. A chap I know was selling his deceased mothers house recently, and he popped in to check on the place only to find some mail on the doormat addressed to a man he had never heard of. What had happened was that this guy had viewed the house with an agent, got wind of the situation and managed to open a bank account and a BT account at that address without even living there. Obviously once he had the utility bills he could've used them to commit some form of fraud or other crime. My friend took these letters to the police who told him that no crime had been commited. They would need to catch this guy using these documents for them to be able to do anything.

The only advice I have for the OP is did you have the van HPi or RAC checked? IIRC they have insurance for this kind of thing.

 

[JEZ.S320L]

The police seem to think it was a furnished rented house as there is no one on electrol roll.

However the notts police confiscated the log book from me at the dvla office and were treating me as the criminal and never even gave me a crime no or incident number and kept ringing me to get under the van and check all relevent eng no etc putting my finger prints over the thieves so no chance now of getting a clean print if tere were any.

A shambles and the van is still on my drive and im in limbo waiting for them to contact me !!

1) The owner of the property must be known.

2) The property owner must know who he/she rented it to.

3) It seems very elaborate for one scam - are there any more scams that have been reported from the same address?

4) Does the Division have a specialised Car Crime Unit you can approach or are these jokers, simply 'Beat Bobbies'?

5) Trading standards may have more information

6) Are these not the questions your wonderful 'Boys In Blue' ought to be asking?

 

[johno2004]

I would like to ask them but still no contact,

There is now 3 forces involved nots leics and northants and it was me who discovered the real owners through a drivers id card hidden in the van that i found whist cleaning the interior.

I phoned the company being honest and they said it was stolen from them in april and since then it has been cloned to a new reg no complete with new vin plates etc.

Lets hope my honesty pay dividents when i do my lottery this week

 

[JEZ.S320L]

I would like to ask them but still no contact,

There is now 3 forces involved nots leics and northants and it was me who discovered the real owners through a drivers id card hidden in the van that i found whist cleaning the interior.

I phoned the company being honest and they said it was stolen from them in april and since then it has been cloned to a new reg no complete with new vin plates etc.

Lets hope my honesty pay dividents when i do my lottery this week

Mmmmm - sounds very much like you are a small part of a MUCH bigger KNOWN scam. If there are 3 forces involved, then there is definately more going on than just yours. Good Luck.

 

[johno2004]

My thoughts as well

 

[jayeastanglia]

did u pay credit card or cash or bank cheque/draft...cancel the credit card or cheque if so.if u paid cash then I am afraid you will most proberbly loose it.but as the van is the insurance companys you may be able to buy it from them

 

[johno2004]

Paid cash but do not know if owners paid out yet by insurance. If they have i might be able to claim ownership having paid fair price but not sure.

 

[Bolide]

Did you HPI the van before purchase?

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[johno2004]

Yes and it was clear,but that was the cloned vehicle, the actual vehicle ive got is stolen so no chance of a claim through that

 

[Bolide]

Wise after the event, but it's possible to check the legitimacy of a V5 (via a code number) via HPI as well

Checking the "real" van with HPI would come up clean. Was the MOT certificate a forgery as well?

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[outsmartsmart]

Its a quasi-legal minefield. There have been cases of purchasers buying in good faith and having taken all necessary precautions getting the vehicle to own (but re-vinned/police stamped and new registration number), I knew a guy had this happen on a motorbike.

However that was when the original ID of the vehicle couldn't be truly ascertained. With an insurance company involved I think the 'faceless beurocracy' applies and you get to eat the sh*t sandwich on this one.

I think the best you can hope for is that its a done deal regarding insurance pay-outs and that the insurance let you have it 'at trade' rather than the hassle of sorting out its ID and shifting it on afterwards.

Much sympathy with you on this one

 

[Xtractorfan]

The police will always tell you that the vehicle doesnt belong to you, because it was stolen and cloned.. the problem is they can take it away to investigate the crime because it is evidence, but in reality it does belong to you, because the vehicle you bought was clear and you did all that was possible to ensure you were buying a genuine vehicle..get some legal advise and seek some second and third opinions.. there are always legal loopholes

 

[johno2004]

Thanks for advice guys,

I understand the police can seize the vehicle for evidence and to ascertain the true identity of it but can they just then hand it back to original owners, or the insurance company if claim has been settled without my knowing or my authority ?

For instance the van i purchased was say ( ab06 abc) which is still driving around un aware that his vehicle has been cloned, so i cannot own that ?.

The van ive got on my drive is say ( aa05 abc ) which has been established as stolen, so i cannot own that ? so i guess i own sh*te.

So if i wen't to court to fight the case which vehicle do i own, the cloned or the stolen. I'm lost !!!

 

[JEZ.S320L]

Thanks for advice guys,

I understand the police can seize the vehicle for evidence and to ascertain the true identity of it but can they just then hand it back to original owners, or the insurance company if claim has been settled without my knowing or my authority ?

For instance the van i purchased was say ( ab06 abc) which is still driving around un aware that his vehicle has been cloned, so i cannot own that ?.

The van ive got on my drive is say ( aa05 abc ) which has been established as stolen, so i cannot own that ? so i guess i own sh*te.

So if i wen't to court to fight the case which vehicle do i own, the cloned or the stolen. I'm lost !!!

I'm afraid you 'own' neither.

The original is owned by the registered owner. Full stop.

The one you have i.e. the stolen one, is owned by either the Insurance company - if they have paid out, or it belongs to the original owner, if they haven't.

Either way, you loose.

There IS a glimmer of hope, in that you MAY be able to re-purchase it from the Insurance company at a 'favourable price' - IF and only IF they have already paid out - otherwise it is simply returned to the owner.

 

[The German Flower Pot]

people will not agree with me but id do the following (in theory just to cover myself)

tell the police as it was not your van and you were so fooked off that you left it on your drive way/car park with the keys still in the ignition and when you got up the next morning it was gone and 30 mins later you realised you were in such a foul mood last night that you parked it up and slammed the door and went in

then id hide the van and flog it to some dodgy sorts for a couple of grand

if the police go mad saying you have done wrong tell them that if it was your van and it had been stolen would they be around going mad .... would they bollox

fight fire with fire

you have been conned and the police dont give a damn

all theoretical obviously

 

[johno2004]

Put it this way i took my crook lock off it so at least if someone did nick it off the drive tonight ive still got my crook lock.

The other thing is ive sent off for the new v5 for the cloned van as i did not know it was cloned when i posted it, and dvla don't either they will just presume i purchased it and im the new owner. What should i do with that i wonder. Prehaps if it comes before they seize it i could flog it cheap but that would make me a scum bag like those who conned me and thats not in my nature even though i have just started a new business as a courier, now without a van,don't supose i will make a good living !!

Might have to sell the clk that is currently in bodyshop having a makeover to make her super again. prehaps not she's my joy.

 

[Rory]

people will not agree with me but id do the following (in theory just to cover myself)

tell the police as it was not your van and you were so fooked off that you left it on your drive way/car park with the keys still in the ignition and when you got up the next morning it was gone and 30 mins later you realised you were in such a foul mood last night that you parked it up and slammed the door and went in

then id hide the van and flog it to some dodgy sorts for a couple of grand

if the police go mad saying you have done wrong tell them that if it was your van and it had been stolen would they be around going mad .... would they bollox

fight fire with fire

you have been conned and the police dont give a damn

all theoretical obviously

Understand your thinking but in this day and age you'd probably get sued by the original owner (or his inusrance company) for failing to take reasonable care of their property.

If you got caught, of course, you'd be going to jail for fraud, and maybe attempting to pervert the course of justice.