Congestion Charge Boosts Diesel

hawk20

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1. Mayor Livingstone has announced that there will be a £25 congestion charge in London on 'gas-guzzlers' from 2009, while the standard charge will be £8.
2. BUT NOTE it is levied only on cars in the highest CO2 emissions band which is band G.
3. NOTE TOO, that there were no CO2 emissions figures given for cars prior to March 1st, 2001 so cars registered prior to that date are exempt from the higher congestion charge WHATEVER THEIR ENGINE SIZE.
4. The exemption for larger-engined cars registered prior to March 1st, 2001 has been widely reported but less well-known is the fact that BAND G DOES NOT EXIST FOR CARS REGISTERED BEFORE MARCH 23rd 2006. Therefore, cars with high emissions (226 or more) registered before March 23rd 2006 will not pay the higher congestion charge, while those registered after that date will pay it.

Some will question whether this is an anomaly, but on reflection it is not. The Chancellor, when introducing band G saw no point in clobbering owners of large cars that had already been bought. The aim was to affect future choices -cars bought after the 2006 budget. That was sensible in my view.

The likely affects of the congestion charge, and the fact that the same basis will be used for road tolls, will be to
a) harm sales of cars with emissions of 226 or more (petrol engines from about 2 litres upwards can be caught by this),
b) help the sales of diesels (for example, even the S320cdi comes in below the new band G)
c) harden prices of pre March 2001 cars with larger engines (but obviously not increase their numbers as they are already in existence).
and d) harden prices of second-hand larger engined cars registered before March 23rd 2006.


As Autocar have pointed out, http://www.autocar.co.uk/news_article.asp?na_id=223038
the higher congestion charge on band G vehicles "means, for example, that the driver of a Renault Espace 2.0T (232g/km) would pay £25 to drive into central London, while the driver of an Espace 2.2dCi (211g/km) would pay £8. This is despite both vehicles being the same physical size, and therefore causing the same amount of congestion.

London residents who live within the scheme – who currently qualify for a 90 per cent discount – will no longer get any discount if their car is in Band G.

Meanwhile, in 2008 the charge for the least-polluting vehicles – those in Band A and B, which produce less than 120g/km – will be removed".

The DVLA website gives information on emissions by make and model of car and lots of other useful information too.

I find it hard to believe that even the well-off will want to crawl into London at £25 per day at an average speed of 10-12 miles per hour. This could well have a really serious effect on the sales of new larger petrol-engined cars, especially if the government goes ahead with rumoured plans to charge higher tolls on band G cars once road pricing comes to clobber the motorist even further.
 
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bitonw

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Indeed, one day you have to drive with gas masks on because some people still don't understand or are that selfish. And still want to drive those 5 litre V8 Diesels SUV. But I also have to say that I don't understand the all those London taxi cars with their prehistory engines friendly polluting the City...

But I have written this before that lots of British people don't understand any thing about nature and life since the biggest engines are running around here on this Island. It's almost like that if thinking green you must be a stupid foreigner...
 
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erm....dont you drive a mercedes? I expect the average S-Class (or even a C-class with a decent sized engin) puts out just as much as a Chelsea Tractor. Still, London will be a lovely place when it is just diesels....breath in boys, let those particulates eat away at your lungs.

As for London imploding, well I'm not sure that's actually a bad thing is it?
 
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hawk20

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The solution is simple; don't buy a **** chelsea tractor.

Maybe that doesn't sit well with our southern friends; DON'T BUY A ***** MONSTROSITY"

You DISGUST me.

Cut out the language, the abuse of Southerners and the abuse oif owners of the ML and other 4x4's. Let us try to be rational. Go to the Merc website and you will see that a ML 280cdi and an ML320cdi emit less CO2 than most 2 litre cars like the Espace in my first posting. Many Mondeos emit more than the ML. The ML is no wider than many Merc saloons, no longer than an E class (so less than an S class), it is merely higher. Why does the fact that it is a bit higher make you blow a fuse -or several. Look at the little RAV4 or the Honda CRV (has a combined fuel economy figure of 35 mpg). What is wrong with them?

This is a fairly free country. Many people like 4x4's for the styling (why not), many for the estate car convenience, many for towing boats and caravans, many for their abilities in bad weather and many for their relative safety (see department of Transport figures). IF you really believe Britain can make more than a minor contribution to global warming (I don't) then it is large petrol engines you want to attack not 4x4's as such. And attack old cars. A twenty year old Orion emits far more than the typical 4x4.

Television's 5 litre v8 petrol SL is the pride of his life and may only be a two seater but it emits way more CO2 than the diesel ML's do or than my S320cdi does. Do you want to ban all decent sports cars too.

If you really want to cut CO2 in the UK look at Biodiesel. It has a zero carbon footprint. The plants use CO2 while growing and the CO2 all goes back when you burn it. Buy a 4x4 bio-diesel and save the planet Hibbo. Happy Christmas.
 
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jberks

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Sorry but isn't London who keeps this Island up and running with their financial industry...

Only after they shutdown all the other engines of industry, stole all the decent jobs and outsourced what was left. In any case, it's merely a centralisation of wealth. After all, who pays into the pension funds and buys the policies that pay for those *.&%$£$*@ stockbrokers undeserved bonuses? (I don't recollect stockbrokers having their bonusses clawed back when the stock market crashed). Having seen the obscene waste of money most orgainsations squander on obscenely expensive and unnecessary London locations, data centres and other facilities, anything that knocks London and gives the rest of us a chance can onky be a good thing.
 

RichHammond

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I would respectfully ask that you get off your high horse Hibbo and use appropriate language for a public forum. I am fed up of these people that harp on about 4x4's all the time I agree with Hawk20's comments.
I have 3 kids and pull a large caravan so I own an ML270 which allows me to take them away several times a year at a cheap rate and I wish to benefit from driving one of the safest vehicles on the road. I don't go abroad and use up loads of fuel and pump out CO2 flying if thats what bothers you. I am glad the goverment has not seen fit so far to penalise the family man who owns a 4x4 for what I feel is the right reasons.
 

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I am so pleased that I am not taking part in this thread. :D

malcolm
 
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hawk20

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Yes.

Ahem, apologies for my hippyesque ramblings :Oops: too much festive cheer.

I'll have to look for a computer with a breathalyser built in.

Sorry again!

Takes a big man to say sorry. Well done Hibbo. Merry Christmas.

Returning to the thread again for a second, the proposed £25 a day congestion charge is staggering. Is anyone going to pay that kind of money unless they can claim it back from a business? So many large, luxury, petrol engined cars are bought by Londoners (it is the capital, 20% of the population, and a higher proportion of big income earners). Could this seriously damage Aston Martin? Jaguar? Range Rover? Bentley? A lot of British jobs are involved here. And if road tolls are going to be much higher for band G motors as well as the congestion charge it could cause a sea change.
 

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Takes a big man to say sorry. Well done Hibbo. Merry Christmas.

Returning to the thread again for a second, the proposed £25 a day congestion charge is staggering. Is anyone going to pay that kind of money unless they can claim it back from a business? So many large, luxury, petrol engined cars are bought by Londoners (it is the capital, 20% of the population, and a higher proportion of big income earners). Could this seriously damage Aston Martin? Jaguar? Range Rover? Bentley? A lot of British jobs are involved here. And if road tolls are going to be much higher for band G motors as well as the congestion charge it could cause a sea change.

Well Aston Martin is for sale,along with Jaguar Landrover as a pair, they could soon disappear with or without congestion charges.

Malcolm
 

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Thanks Hawk for a bit of common decency and sense. I drive an ML320CDI (2006). I made the choice to swap my E270CDi (2003) estate for a number of reasons.
1. I need a 4x4 for work - yes even though I live in the suburbs of London, I still make use of the 4 wheel drive facility for work, albeit not all the time.
2. My ML is shorter and no wider than the E class so it doesn't cause any more congestion
3. My ML is cleaner and more fuel efficient that the E class
4. I can pack all the families bikes and luggage into the car for weekend breaks as there is more usable luggage capacity than an E class estate (same width and length but greater height in the boot!).
5. The position of the seat means that I can step in and out of the car easily thus not aggravating a back injury caused by an idiot in an ecologically friendly Prius not having the brains to look right when he pulled out to turn right across the A23. He was so busy saving the planet he neglected to pay attention to saving himself.

I may be an idiot for driving a 4x4 (according to Ken Livingstone) but I would rather be an idiot than a fool who makes ill-judged and intolerant comments. I defy anyone to come up with a vehicle which can do all of the above but is still considered ecologically sound. There are people who drive 4x4s who may not need to, but there are also people who drive sports cars, MPVs, old bangers etc who all cause more damage to the environment.

It is time people stopped making sweeping judgements and tried to make a rational argument. By all means tax 4x4s at a higher level if your jealousy is such that you cannot bear to see them on the road, but if the argument is based on what is environmently friendly, then by rights you should be taxing older cars, MPVs, Buses, Taxis, Vans, Lorries etc at much higher rates since they are much more likely to pollute the atmosphere. My ML causes a lot less congestion than many of the cars which fall into the above groups.

Oh and one other thing. If you don't like someones choice of car, instead of vandalising it, just leave a polite note with your contact details. At least this way you have the opportunity of engaging in a debate!
 
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hawk20

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Thanks Hawk for a bit of common decency and sense. I drive an ML320CDI (2006). I made the choice to swap my E270CDi (2003) estate for a number of reasons.
1. I need a 4x4 for work - yes even though I live in the suburbs of London, I still make use of the 4 wheel drive facility for work, albeit not all the time.
2. My ML is shorter and no wider than the E class so it doesn't cause any more congestion
3. My ML is cleaner and more fuel efficient that the E class
4. I can pack all the families bikes and luggage into the car for weekend breaks as there is more usable luggage capacity than an E class estate (same width and length but greater height in the boot!).
5. The position of the seat means that I can step in and out of the car easily thus not aggravating a back injury caused by an idiot in an ecologically friendly Prius not having the brains to look right when he pulled out to turn right across the A23. He was so busy saving the planet he neglected to pay attention to saving himself.

I may be an idiot for driving a 4x4 (according to Ken Livingstone) but I would rather be an idiot than a fool who makes ill-judged and intolerant comments. I defy anyone to come up with a vehicle which can do all of the above but is still considered ecologically sound. There are people who drive 4x4s who may not need to, but there are also people who drive sports cars, MPVs, old bangers etc who all cause more damage to the environment.

It is time people stopped making sweeping judgements and tried to make a rational argument. By all means tax 4x4s at a higher level if your jealousy is such that you cannot bear to see them on the road, but if the argument is based on what is environmently friendly, then by rights you should be taxing older cars, MPVs, Buses, Taxis, Vans, Lorries etc at much higher rates since they are much more likely to pollute the atmosphere. My ML causes a lot less congestion than many of the cars which fall into the above groups.

Oh and one other thing. If you don't like someones choice of car, instead of vandalising it, just leave a polite note with your contact details. At least this way you have the opportunity of engaging in a debate!

Well said. One point you make I find especially interesting. How much easier it is to get in and out of a 4x4 especially if you have a bad back -I do too. The modern saloon is very low and hard to enter and exit especially if you park driver's door next to a pavement. I always envy those who can get in and out of sports cars. And how models do it in a mini-skirt I don't know. I just wonder how many have chosen 4x4's because they like the high driving position.

On Malcolm's point about Land Rover, Jaguar and Aston Martin being up for sale: yes but surely a buyer will seek to keep them going. If a buyer can be found now.
 

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I should imagine we will have to close this thread. Far too many well raised and factfull points correctly expressed.

I think the 1 outburst of less than mercedes like response may well keep the politicians off out backs should they ever be shortsighted enought to actually read what people think! Mind you, they would all pick on that one post and highlight the points it provides defences for in their daft narrowminded media driven world they all live in.

What kind of politician actually would take any notice of the general public?

Keep up the informative points, you never know, 1 day it may be on the right side again.
 

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I have recently taken delivery of a new S320 CDi L which was classed as band F. When I took delivery last week the paperword showed it as band G. When I queried this I was told that as I had specified optional 18" alloys ( from the standard 17" ) it had pushed up the CO2 rating due to the increased power needed to propel the car on the bigger tyres ! So beware - if you are upgrading wheel size you will also fall into a higher band.
 
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hawk20

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I have recently taken delivery of a new S320 CDi L which was classed as band F. When I took delivery last week the paperword showed it as band G. When I queried this I was told that as I had specified optional 18" alloys ( from the standard 17" ) it had pushed up the CO2 rating due to the increased power needed to propel the car on the bigger tyres ! So beware - if you are upgrading wheel size you will also fall into a higher band.

That is bad luck. Actually if you go onto the DVLA website they give all the info on CO2 emissions for all current models. And yes, they give different CO2 ratings depending on the tyre size fitted (all shown on the website). With many models the bigger wheels do not move a car from one Band to another -but if the standard car is near the cusp (say 183 in band F which ends at 185) then clearly bigger wheels can tip you over into a higher band.
 
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