Defense against attacks on Keyless Go cars

[gr1nch]

As a very fortunate and proud owner of a new Mercedes with Keyless Go, I'd rather not make it easy for thieves to make off with car whilst I'm shopping with the wife, out for a meal or a meeting. This is what can happen (it's been shared on the forum before).
https://youtu.be/oMuXCkTlr0M
* guy parks his car, goes into a building
* SUV pulls up and two thieving team members, T1 and T2, get out. T3 stays in the SUV.
* T1 wearing a back pack follows the victim, on hand held comms, stays in contact with T1/T3..
* T2 goes to the car
* a few seconds later T3 uses the SUV as a visual blocker, physical barrier and getaway vehicle[1], between the victim and his car.
* T2 accesses car and drives off
* T3 pulls over, picks T1 who has run out
* Victim comes out of building, bewildered
All over in a few minutes. Either.... T1 and T2 have an RF bridge (two laptops or RPis, maybe mobiles) and antennas to capture, share and retransmit messages between the key and car. Or... They have a key and clone it via ODB or otherwise. I'm going to get a Disklock methinks.

Solutions (primarily when you or your family are not in a physical vulnerable position)
* Keyless Go can not be turned off on the car itself (confirmed by MB Grimsby)
* Keys can be turned off (stated by a forum member, but I can't find the thread) by a quick double press. Reactivated by a single press. I confirmed this today.
* Jamming pouch. It's effectively a flexible, flat Faraday Cage, stopping RF (around 433MHz) getting in or out. I tested this out today on my W222. It works perfectly denying RF drum a fully capable key. The pouch is flat enough to fit in a jeans pocket in comfort and cost around £2. Here's mine

[1] in case things go south. They are not mugging the victim, so prefer non-violent methods.

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[John Laidlaw]

Extremely helpful thank you- can I ask where you obtained said pouch please?

 

[Craiglxviii]

Comandonline are offering a deal on a certain type of immobiliser, totally programmable, which can be hidden inside a main wiring loom. I think it was £300 or so. Worth having a word as it sounded superb.

 

[mikestrivens]

Extremely helpful thank you- can I ask where you obtained said pouch please?

Google is your friend and Amazon and Ebay have loads

 

[gr1nch]

Extremely helpful thank you- can I ask where you obtained said pouch please?

HTH. On Aliexpress and this exact one. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mob...ld-Case-Bag-Pouch-Black-51024/1703614299.html
If I get one (I got two, one for each key) make sure you slide the key into the gold pouch (first, pure RF jamming). This morning I showed the MB guys on pickup, but I had put it in the wrong slot which is only partially protected, d'oh! That slot is for other stuff like SIMs, credit cards, money etc.

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[gr1nch]

Btw there are branded US makes that are probably better, but for me this is proving effective enough.
I'm still getting a Disklock though.

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[LostKiwi]

Btw there are branded US makes that are probably better, but for me this is proving effective enough.
I'm still getting a Disklock though.

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A security device is only as effective as the person using it. The problem with a disk look is that after a while the hassle of using it means you decide not to as you're only popping in for a pint of milk. I can guarantee that within 6 months the Disklock lives on the floor behind your seat or disappears into the garage.
Far better to use a system that automatically arms itself and requires driver input to disable every time.

 

[AMGeed]

This is the product that Mark from ComandOnline thinks highly of

http://www.autodefence.co.uk/autowatch-ghost.html

 

[Submariner1]

A security device is only as effective as the person using it. The problem with a disk look is that after a while the hassle of using it means you decide not to as you're only popping in for a pint of milk. I can guarantee that within 6 months the Disklock lives on the floor behind your seat or disappears into the garage.
Far better to use a system that automatically arms itself and requires driver input to disable every time.

Totally agree, I had to look that up

Surely that will never stay in constant use.
Its so cumbersome, its a joke.
In the late 80s I had a Porsche and they fitted some immobiliser fob. The reciever was covertly hidden behind the trim, near the ign. Switch.
So you had to sort of touch it as you moved towards the key hole.
Yes one got fairly adept at it , but even then it was a pain.

But slapping that thing on the steering wheel is joke.

 

[Submariner1]

Btw there are branded US makes that are probably better, but for me this is proving effective enough.
I'm still getting a Disklock though.

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Confused by your post.
Is keyless go easier for them to get around? Or just as easy as a remote key signal.

Is one better protected not using the keyless go feature but use the key to unlock it, and then switch off the key (double press) in a rough area?

Are these thieves basically using a scanner to capture the rf code? And then spit it out later at your car?

I am surprised I thought Mercedes had cracked this stuff in the early 90s with rolling codes etc.?

 

[gr1nch]

Confused by your post.
Is keyless go easier for them to get around? Or just as easy as a remote key signal.

Is one better protected not using the keyless go feature but use the key to unlock it, and then switch off the key (double press) in a rough area?

Are these thieves basically using a scanner to capture the rf code? And then spit it out later at your car?

I am surprised I thought Mercedes had cracked this stuff in the early 90s with rolling codes etc.?

As far as I can tell Keyless Go is easier to get around than Keypress as all the thieves have to do is make your key appear to be right outside the car door, then inside the car. They don't need anyone to press any buttons, as the communication between car and key to disarm the alarm, deactivate the immobiliser, open the doors and start the car happens without human interaction with the key itself. So yes, it's capturing and retransmitting the RF output and bridging the gap between key and car.

Cracking Keypress is still doable on cars without extra key-to-car security like handshaking or time based authentication. Carkey (and garage) rolling codes on their own (even OTP) have been cracked: there are known solutions (eg RollJam) that defeat pure rolling codes.

Totally agree, I had to look that up

Surely that will never stay in constant use.
Its so cumbersome, its a joke.
In the late 80s I had a Porsche and they fitted some immobiliser fob. The reciever was covertly hidden behind the trim, near the ign. Switch.
So you had to sort of touch it as you moved towards the key hole.
Yes one got fairly adept at it , but even then it was a pain.

But slapping that thing on the steering wheel is joke.

they look crap I agree, but if I really want to make it harder for the thieves it's a good visual deterrent. It may prevent a broken window with them getting to the OBD port and key cloning etc. I'd mainly use it for overnight or long stay parking as I haven't got a garage here to put my car in yet.



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[Craiglxviii]

I asked our resident tea leaf about the wheel lock type measures. His response was that in general they act like "rotating amber beacons" to car thieves e.g. A big advert that there's something worth nicking.

 

[umblecumbuz]

... in general they act like "rotating amber beacons" to car thieves e.g. A big advert that there's something worth nicking.

Might it be the car?

Umble

 

[rorywquin]

I asked our resident tea leaf about the wheel lock type measures. His response was that in general they act like "rotating amber beacons" to car thieves e.g. A big advert that there's something worth nicking.

Must have been a typically stupid thief if he needs a disklok to tell him the car is worth nicking!

 

[rorywquin]

HTH. On Aliexpress and this exact one. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mob...ld-Case-Bag-Pouch-Black-51024/1703614299.html
If I get one (I got two, one for each key) make sure you slide the key into the gold pouch (first, pure RF jamming). This morning I showed the MB guys on pickup, but I had put it in the wrong slot which is only partially protected, d'oh! That slot is for other stuff like SIMs, credit cards, money etc.

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So does the key still work when it is in the pouch? If you have to get it out of the pouch to unlock / start the car, then it totally defeats the point of having keyless go!

 

[Craiglxviii]

Must have been a typically stupid thief if he needs a disklok to tell him the car is worth nicking!

"Typically" & "stupid" feature heavily. How many go unnoticed by police over a career? Not many I'd bet.

 

[JBell]

they look crap I agree, but if I really want to make it harder for the thieves it's a good visual deterrent. It may prevent a broken window with them getting to the OBD port and key cloning etc. I'd mainly use it for overnight or long stay parking as I haven't got a garage here to put my car in yet.

The kind of thief that will go after your car will not even hesitate if a disklock is on it, you may as well put a sticker on the window saying it has an alarm

 

[Submariner1]

As far as I can tell Keyless Go is easier to get around than Keypress as all the thieves have to do is make your key appear to be right outside the car door, then inside the car. They don't need anyone to press any buttons, as the communication between car and key to disarm the alarm, deactivate the immobiliser, open the doors and start the car happens without human interaction with the key itself. So yes, it's capturing and retransmitting the RF output and bridging the gap between key and car.

Cracking Keypress is still doable on cars without extra key-to-car security like handshaking or time based authentication. Carkey (and garage) rolling codes on their own (even OTP) have been cracked: there are known solutions (eg RollJam) that defeat pure rolling codes.

they look crap I agree, but if I really want to make it harder for the thieves it's a good visual deterrent. It may prevent a broken window with them getting to the OBD port and key cloning etc. I'd mainly use it for overnight or long stay parking as I haven't got a garage here to put my car in yet.



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Well I think I will apologise. TBH I thought you were a tad crazy with that cumbersome thing.
Historically I never ticked the Keyless go option, as it seemed a lot of dosh for little reward; prefering to spend on tangible goodies like say an "air-scarf" - lots of cool but sunny days in England where this made pleasant open top motoring a pleasure.

Being in the computer game, I also knew how dam smart some of these techies were (and many were underpaid in relation to their skill set) , so I alsways thought keyless go was inherently weak securuty wise.
And being a dinosaur I liked the comfort of pulling the handle ( to check she was secured) just before I left the short term airport car park ( job incurred at least 4 trips to Europe per month).

Having read this https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clinic/six-ways-thieves-can-break-into-a-car-and-how-to-prevent-it/
All my worst fears materialised.
I would image by now the "right" theifes have got that down to a fine art.
And the thought of having to put your key in a special anti hack pouch totally defeats any convenience of keyless go.... how hard is it to just press the key as you leave or arrive?

The only comfort is mine is an old car, and I guess the pros are going for 1 and 2 year old cars.

I would feel pretty nervous if I had a brand new CL65 AMG :/-

 

[Yugguy]

The funniest thing to come out of all this "wonderful" new technology is more and more people are talking about buying a good old-fashioned physical disabling device such as krooklok, or wheel clamp.

Isn't progress great?

 

[AMGeed]

I would feel pretty nervous if I had a brand new CL65 AMG :/-

So would I if they still have ABC suspension

Just fit THIS and forget it.

Thieves learned how to break into cars with central locking 20 odd years ago, KG isn't infallable even with a rolling code, but the above, connected to the Canbus under your carpet simply disables the car. Only you know the sequence to disarm it.
If Commandonline feel its the best deterrent against your car being stolen, its good enough for me.