Dim HIDs W210

[Craiglxviii]

When talking cars, Xenon usually means HIDs...is there any question about that?

Now...halogen-xenon lamps...how does that work? Is there a little of each gas in the lamp?

Hehe. Halfy-halfy fill eh Ciaran?

It's a misnomer really as most Xenon lamps don't strictly use Xenon but a compound of it. What it means is a gas-filled filament lamp where a Xenon compound replaces the former halogen, allowing for a very slightly increased luminous flux density at the expense of lifetime and stability.

 

[Naraic]

Hehe. Halfy-halfy fill eh Ciaran?

It's a misnomer really as most Xenon lamps don't strictly use Xenon but a compound of it. What it means is a gas-filled filament lamp where a Xenon compound replaces the former halogen, allowing for a very slightly increased luminous flux density at the expense of lifetime and stability.

Oh, I knew that, but was replying to a pedant.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Oh, I knew that, but was replying to a pedant.

I know you knew I knew you knew, but was being one myself

 

[Flyinspanner]

Just looked at auto bulbs direct website, and they have issues with incorrect lamps listed.

For my CL500 they list H7 headlamps and H6w / 494 side lamps - both incorrect. (Xenons and Bax9s are the correct ones)

I've sent them a message.

But beware that you know what lamps you actually require before you order

 

[Craiglxviii]

Just looked at auto bulbs direct website, and they have issues with incorrect lamps listed.

For my CL500 they list H7 headlamps and H6w / 494 side lamps - both incorrect. (Xenons and Bax9s are the correct ones)

I've sent them a message.

But beware that you know what lamps you actually require before you order

Be careful there as W215s had several different lamp types depending on model, engine, grade and year. Mine has H7 high beam, D2S Xenon low beam and BAX9S sidelights; some facelifted cars replace these with W5W but not all just to be confusing.

What year is yours?

 

[Naraic]

Just looked at auto bulbs direct website, and they have issues with incorrect lamps listed.

For my CL500 they list H7 headlamps and H6w / 494 side lamps - both incorrect. (Xenons and Bax9s are the correct ones)

I've sent them a message.

But beware that you know what lamps you actually require before you order

H7s are also used.

 

[bob 6600]

Just looked at auto bulbs direct website, and they have issues with incorrect lamps listed.

For my CL500 they list H7 headlamps and H6w / 494 side lamps - both incorrect. (Xenons and Bax9s are the correct ones)

I've sent them a message.

But beware that you know what lamps you actually require before you order

Whenever I put my reg in, it still asks if I have Xenons or not and then shows the bulbs accordingly. Do you get this option?

 

[Rappey69]

Has anyone used LED (e.g. Cree) for main beams, are they any good yet?

I do offroading at night on all sorts pf machines.. Have played around with many types of light.
Have factory xenons in my w203, running 6k chinese lamps as not paying crazy oem prices.. They have been working faultlessly for over 4 years now.. I changed the lamps as a oem one failed.
Put a cheap chinese hid kit on my quad which has american type hotspot reflectors... Awesome, even after being submerged a few times!
A friend bought a pair of H4 led lamps to replace his halogen ones... we put one in so could compare to the halogen.. The claimed lumen output was off the chart..
What a load of rubbish.. Beam pattern was non existent, It was meant to be 6k but the light projected onto the road was whiter from the halogen in the other headlight.. The halogen also gave out more light on the road ahead!
I has a new courtesy B class for 2 weeks, it had projector halogen lights.. They blew my w203 xenons away in terms of illuminating the road surface!
I think old lights just dont have the reflective technology of new ones!
As it stands, watt for watt the xenons are still the best for output of lumens!

 

[LostKiwi]

As with anything there are LEDs and there are LEDs. Our Cooper S has factory LEDs and they are superb.
My 210 has Philips +150 H7 low beam and Osram NightBreaker laser H7 high beam. They're almost as good as the Mini under most circumstances and better on high beam.The 129 has NightBreaker Laser H4s and they're poor in comparison. There is little doubt lens and reflector technology has advanced a long way as when the 129s were released they had comparatively good lights compared to other cars on the market!

 

[Rappey69]

i agree there are leds and there are leds... I bought ten 38mm festoon 16 led lamps from china for £1.37 inc postage.. These are for the interior lights on my boat, and they are bright..
I looked in halfords and they want £12- £20 pound ! So they have added two zeros to the price tag !!!
cheap can pay !

 

[Craiglxviii]

I do offroading at night on all sorts pf machines.. Have played around with many types of light.
Have factory xenons in my w203, running 6k chinese lamps as not paying crazy oem prices.. They have been working faultlessly for over 4 years now.. I changed the lamps as a oem one failed.
Put a cheap chinese hid kit on my quad which has american type hotspot reflectors... Awesome, even after being submerged a few times!
A friend bought a pair of H4 led lamps to replace his halogen ones... we put one in so could compare to the halogen.. The claimed lumen output was off the chart..
What a load of rubbish.. Beam pattern was non existent, It was meant to be 6k but the light projected onto the road was whiter from the halogen in the other headlight.. The halogen also gave out more light on the road ahead!
I has a new courtesy B class for 2 weeks, it had projector halogen lights.. They blew my w203 xenons away in terms of illuminating the road surface!
I think old lights just dont have the reflective technology of new ones!
As it stands, watt for watt the xenons are still the best for output of lumens!

That's because changing the light source in an existing lamp housing will never work without changing the way that the housing interacts with the light source.

Right now LED lamps have overtaken HiD by some way in terms of lumens per circuit watt. Matrix arrays are even cooler but that's getting into uber geekery.

 

[Flyinspanner]

A Matrix array ......do I have to wear a long black coat and change my name to Neo?

With regard to my earlier post (#24) on auto bulb site, my reg brought up a c class.....and when I just went in via model I didn't get the question re Xenons or not.

Got a "thank you" message back from them re the info which I appreciated.

 

[Mr Filipov]

That's because changing the light source in an existing lamp housing will never work without changing the way that the housing interacts with the light source.

Right now LED lamps have overtaken HiD by some way in terms of lumens per circuit watt. Matrix arrays are even cooler but that's getting into uber geekery.

LED may be in the lead but the xenons are still superior. The simple fact is xenons throw more light out. Now because of regs you do not need headlight washers for anything up to 2k lumens. Cars woth LED lights for the most part do not have washers. Cars that are fitted with xenons on the other hand do have washers. On average a xenon bulb chucks out over 3k lumens, which in simple terms means more light. I would prefer to stick to xenons where possible. Personal preference really.

 

[LostKiwi]

LED may be in the lead but the xenons are still superior. The simple fact is xenons throw more light out. Now because of regs you do not need headlight washers for anything up to 2k lumens. Cars woth LED lights for the most part do not have washers. Cars that are fitted with xenons on the other hand do have washers. On average a xenon bulb chucks out over 3k lumens, which in simple terms means more light. I would prefer to stick to xenons where possible. Personal preference really.

You're a bit behind the times. Headlight washers are not required at all now.

LEDs can put out more light than Xenon too and are a lot more efficient and can be more finely controlled to direct light to the precise place its required. Its pointless having loads of light if it scatter everywhere and isn't where its needed. There is no way Xenons could do what is now possible with matrix array LEDs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJHpD70fXME

 

[Craiglxviii]

LED may be in the lead but the xenons are still superior. The simple fact is xenons throw more light out. Now because of regs you do not need headlight washers for anything up to 2k lumens. Cars woth LED lights for the most part do not have washers. Cars that are fitted with xenons on the other hand do have washers. On average a xenon bulb chucks out over 3k lumens, which in simple terms means more light. I would prefer to stick to xenons where possible. Personal preference really.

As a lighting source technically xenon are NOT superior to LEDs and haven't been since a very good friend of mine made a certain breakthrough in late 2010. The key to it is that HiD lamps need an expensive ballast system where LED lamps operate at native 12V. LED lamps can easily put out 18.000 lumens if required from the same form factor volume as a car headlamp.

 

[Craiglxviii]

You're a bit behind the times. Headlight washers are not required at all now.

LEDs can put out more light than Xenon too and are a lot more efficient and can be more finely controlled to direct light to the precise place its required. Its pointless having loads of light if it scatter everywhere and isn't where its needed. There is no way Xenons could do what is now possible with matrix array LEDs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJHpD70fXME

Headlamp washers not required for any lighting source <2000lm now.

Matrix LEDs are getting even cooler than that. Uber geekery mode, Osram will reach the point of projecting 720p monochrome movies (via headlamps!) on the road surface by late this yr and reckon full HD by next summer. It's very exciting stuff.

 

[LostKiwi]

You've never needed washers for less yuan 2000lm.

 

[Craiglxviii]

You've never needed washers for less yuan 2000lm.

They're normally in dollars not yuan

They were required for LED main headlamps of all light output originally. It's a big cost reduction activity at work now the regs have changed, saved me a lot of effort I can tell you.

 

[Mr Filipov]

As a lighting source technically xenon are NOT superior to LEDs and haven't been since a very good friend of mine made a certain breakthrough in late 2010. The key to it is that HiD lamps need an expensive ballast system where LED lamps operate at native 12V. LED lamps can easily put out 18.000 lumens if required from the same form factor volume as a car headlamp.

And the key to LED units is that they are sealed. If one goes for whatever reason, you cannot simply pop down to halfords and get a replacement bulb. How much is the replacement bulb for my E class with xenons and how much is a new cluster for the CLS with LEDs? I believe you do the numbers x10 if I am not wrong.

More annoyingly because they do not have to be in a reflector enclosure (no idea why not), they are no better or worse at blinding you than the typical mk4 Golf driving down the road with an HID kit.

 

[Craiglxviii]

And the key to LED units is that they are sealed. If one goes for whatever reason, you cannot simply pop down to halfords and get a replacement bulb. How much is the replacement bulb for my E class with xenons and how much is a new cluster for the CLS with LEDs? I believe you do the numbers x10 if I am not wrong.

More annoyingly because they do not have to be in a reflector enclosure (no idea why not), they are no better or worse at blinding you than the typical mk4 Golf driving down the road with an HID kit.

Incorrect on both counts. The LED lighting engine can be repaired (they're not sealed but removable if you know how), and I'm giving it 5 years before the aftermarket repair industry catches onto this. The cost difference between an HiD lighting engine and an LED one is fairly similar; the difference between an LED PCB and a (say) D2R lamp is well in favour of the LED type (cost around £10, vs £15 for the Xenon). Right now the replacement cost for LED lamps is very high but remember the whole electronic lighting industry is only a decade old. Retail prices will drop.

Of course LED lamps require reflectors, or collimating of some kind. They all use the same form factor housing in the car and they all have to meet the regulation beam pattern that every other homologated lamp does. Your final comment is way off the mark.

What we have seen with these lamps is designers shoehorning them into the same existing housings that are used for halogen and HiD lamps. Those housings are non optimal for LED lighting engines for a number of reasons, mainly to do with heat dissipation. What we are now seeing is the first generation of car headlamps designed solely for LED- depth decreases massively, thermal characteristics (and thus life) improve massively; with matrix arrays the beam levelling increases its efficacy by an order of magnitude.

If you were to drive my 212 with full LED intelligent adaptive beam control, you'd never want to drive another car at night. They're THAT good. They also do not dazzle oncoming drivers due to the way the beams are shaped. The lamps blank out the beam pattern to keep oncoming drivers in a shadow that tracks them until they go past. Now that mechanical function is being replaced electronically so becomes even better.

And that's why the future lies with electronic lighting.