E270 CDi vs E280 CDi?

[the zacster]

We're looking to upgrade from coupe to estate and are keen on the E-class. Planning to buy nearly new (e.g. from MBDirect) to save a few bucks... but we're hearing different opinions about the 270 and 280 CDis.

We probably don't need the 190BHP offered by the 280 (the 175BHP offered by the 270 would suffice), but we've heard rumours that the 270 CDI engine has a history of problems (related to the turbo?)...and that's why MB ditched the 270s and replaced them with the 280.

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Thanks!

 

[tech lee]

hi the problem relating to the 270 turbos should be well sorted if you are looking at the latest version. it only affected the earlier models. the 270 is a straight 5 cylinder where as the 280 is a v6.
personally the v6 is far better to drive.
remember the v6 is still relatively new so problems may still arise.

 

[Dieter R]

Hi,

The 280 Cdi is a third generation (V6, piezo injection etc.) diesel engine and just reflects progress/evolution (i.e. it's not just a replacement for a 'problem' engine.

My 270 CDi (ML) didn't miss a beat for 40,000 miles. New 320 CDi (currently driving in new ML) is a revelation (compared with 270 CDi), it's so much quieter and 'petrol like' etc. as I would excpect the 280 CDi to be.

Cheers,

 

[jberks]

If you have 2 side by side and the price / spec difference doesn't matter, go for the 280. Purely on the basis that it's a smoother, newer engine and I imagine that the residuals will be fractionally better at the end as people always pay more for the newer one.
However,
I bought my E270 3 months ago when there weren't many used 280's around and those I found were commanding a heavy premium. I did avoid anything pre 04 as there were problems on some cars. Mine is a very late 04 and whilst perhaps it hasn't been long enough for a full evaluation (5500 miles), I have to say that so far, I'm very happy with it. Just come back from a round trip to B'ham. 260 miles, steady 70-80 and 45.7 on the trip. Not as mad as the 320 but certainly lively enough for most, and there still isn't much that will outrun it away from the lights in those mad moments!

 

[Rory]

I guess things are always evolving, but the 5 cyl 270 had to go because it apparently needed a lot of work (or it would have reduced its power output considerably) to make it EU4 compliant, which became mandatory this month.

 

[the zacster]

Many thanks to all for your responses.

Please excuse my ignorance, but I'm not up to speed on 'EU4'; what does this mean and is this relevant to a private owner?

Thanks

D

 

[jberks]

EU4 is the EUropean emmissions directive. Basically Diesels need particle filters to pass and the 270 didn't get on well with them. It is a tax issue for company car drivers but makes no difference to us private owners.

 

[Sanny]

MB have jsut bought my 2003 E270CDI back as it was by far and away the worst car I have ever owned. I would have said that it was a one off, but I know 3 other people who have an E class of similar age all with the 270CDI engine and ALL have had problems.

By coincidence, my brothers Maserati Quattroporte has just gone fo a service and the dealer gave him an E280CDI as a courtesy car. I have driven it this evening and their is no comparison.

In my opinion, the 280CDI is much smoother and more powerful.

Personally after my own bitter experiece I would say buy something more reliable than a Mercedes as the product noe stinks and the customer service is non-existent.

Good luck

 

[the zacster]

Tricky one, this.

So what I'm hearing is that;

270CDI
1) has been discontinued, so I'd have to buy a nearly-new one, (e.g. from Mercedes Direct); would probably cost me c.£27k (£29/30list minus discount)
2) was not EU4 compliant; that doesn't bother me from a company tax perspective as I'm a private owner - but I assume it DOES mean that it give better fuel economy than an EU4 car (and with the costs of a growing family on my hands, economy helps!)
3) there were problems with (earlier?) engines, but these may have been sorted on later models (04 onwards?)
4) is not as smooth/powerful as the 280 (hardly surprising as the latter is new and 3 litre)... but offeres poorer economy

280CDI
1) Newer better engine than the 270
2) From Jan onwards, can only be sold new in EU4 format... so offers poorer fuel economy (34/35 combined) than the 270 (36/37)
3) possibly a tad more expensive to ensure (3 litre / 190 bhp vs. 2.7 litre 175)
4) can be bought new from a broker with decent spec for £30k-ish (see recent thread re drivethedeal.com)

Have I got that right?

Z

 

[blassberg]

My 270 CDi (ML) didn't miss a beat for 40,000 miles. New 320 CDi (currently driving in new ML) is a revelation (compared with 270 CDi), it's so much quieter and 'petrol like' etc. as I would excpect the 280 CDi to be.

My 270 CDi (ML) missed one beat easily corrected for 105,000 miles. New 320 CDi (currently driving in new C) is a revelation (compared with 270 CDi), it's so much quieter and 'petrol like' etc. as I would excpect the 280 CDi to be.

 

[Rory]

Tricky one, this.

So what I'm hearing is that;

270CDI
1) has been discontinued, so I'd have to buy a nearly-new one, (e.g. from Mercedes Direct); would probably cost me c.£27k (£29/30list minus discount)
2) was not EU4 compliant; that doesn't bother me from a company tax perspective as I'm a private owner - but I assume it DOES mean that it give better fuel economy than an EU4 car (and with the costs of a growing family on my hands, economy helps!)
3) there were problems with (earlier?) engines, but these may have been sorted on later models (04 onwards?)
4) is not as smooth/powerful as the 280 (hardly surprising as the latter is new and 3 litre)... but offeres poorer economy

280CDI
1) Newer better engine than the 270
2) From Jan onwards, can only be sold new in EU4 format... so offers poorer fuel economy (34/35 combined) than the 270 (36/37)
3) possibly a tad more expensive to ensure (3 litre / 190 bhp vs. 2.7 litre 175)
4) can be bought new from a broker with decent spec for £30k-ish (see recent thread re drivethedeal.com)

Have I got that right?

Z

I'd say that's spot on - apart from point 4 in the first list. As you already mentioned, the 270 is possibly slightly more economical, so you wrote 'poorer' where I think you meant 'better'!

 

[the zacster]

Well spotted Rory!

Most the points suggest the 270 is the better option, as it'll save me a few grand on purchase and will be cheaper to run... IF the engine holds up. That's my key concern - reliability of the 270 - as I'm not intending to change the car for many years

 

[Jensen]

Well JBerks seems to know his stuff so you would be OK with a late 04 plate 270.

 

[jberks]

Don't blame me!
Seriously, do drive them both. People are shouting about how nice the 280 engine is. The 270 isn't the most refined motor I have driven and feels a bit rough on take-off, although I came from a petrol v6 so I was always going to notice it a bit. Once rolling (out of 1st) its smooth and quiet though and has an almost v8 burble to it when you press on. Most passengers are surprised when I say its a diesel so probably its just me being picky. The MPG is better than the 280 according to official figures and the insurance is probably less as the quote for a 320cdi at the time was substantially more than the 270 and swung it to some extent. As the new 280 is similar power to the old 320 I suspect the insurance is similar too.

If you are happy with the refinement of the 270, a late 04, early 05 with a decent spec shouldn't give you any problems. Certainly all the dogs that people have complained about seem to be 02/03. I haven't heard of any poor 04 ones and there are loads of 270's about in C's and ML's so failures are still comparatively rare. I hope so anyway as I intend to put over 100k on mine over the next 4 years and then my dad has his eye on it to replace his C.