E55 AMG Engine & Gearbox

[bigasotonuk]

Hi,
As some of you know I have been investigating the possibility of putting an E55 Engine & Gearbox in my C43, I can get one with 53,000 miles on it.
But what should I pay for it? Any ideas greatly appreciated as I have to ring him tomorrow to make an offer.

 

[Cole@MBS]

What kind of price is it up for Andy??

 

[bigasotonuk]

Not sure SAM as he has just asked me to ring him, but i really want an idea of how much to offer him or a max. price to give for it.
Bearing in mind I was offered a C43 AMG Engine & Box plus its complete interior, and loads of other bits and pieces for £1500 a few months ago.
There was a CLK55 Engine only on E-bay for £2500 which is well over priced IMO, and there was also an E55 Engine on there not so long ago for £1500.
The Engine i,m after is still in the car and can be heard running and I maybe able to negogiate for a cheaper price by removing the engine myself as I,ll have to transport back to mine anyway so I would have to go too see it anyway.
Any Ideas?

 

[Cole@MBS]

Hard call Andy, i would say its worth £1500 all day long! i know a couple of the dealers that you know have changed them due to water ingress in the floods, £25000 plus for the lump, so wouldnt think £1500 is overpriced!!!

 

[bigasotonuk]

To tell you the truth SAM thats the price I would like to pay for it too.
If he excepts it all well and good but with the price of the E55's at the moment i,m sure it would,nt be the last one up for sale.
I,ll try to get it with all ancillaries and ECU's too though strictly speaking I should,nt need them as I would use my 43's items.
Something I have been wondering is whether I,ll need to change the sump pan on the 55 lump to fit in the 43.

 

[st4]

I'd have thought you'd have needed the new engines ECU's, etc for it to run properly, and work with the rest of the cars electronics (immoboliser, ESP) etc. Ideally you'd want the gearbox + engine with all the 55's electics so its just a case of fitting them in to your car, with electics from the 4.3 car it might not be so good

 

[bigasotonuk]

It is a straight swap with the electrics as the engines are identical, using the 43's ECU's negate the swapping and subsequent recoding of items, though i,m not sure about the E55 gearbox electrics.

 

[st4]

It is a straight swap with the electrics as the engines are identical, using the 43's ECU's negate the swapping and subsequent recoding of items, though i,m not sure about the E55 gearbox electrics.

They're not identical, one is 1100cc bigger and generates more power/torque and @ different points in the rev range. I'd have reckoned the ecu from a different engine would be thrown out (i.e. promptly go into limp home mode) when a change in engine happens - I know that porsche ECU's are so advanced that if you put in fuel that will run the engine above its rated power output the ECU reigns it back in, presenting an ECU with a whole new engine is a dicy one, although I may be completely wrong.

You'll probably negate the gearbox issue by taking the 55's gearbox control units, however I don't know if the 43's engine chip would recognise the different gearbox and the electrics contained therein, i.e. ECU talks to gearbox and vice versa.

My solution would be to take the entire E55's electronics, including ignition and immobilliser and insert them into your car. Basically an entire swap of running gear, and associated electrics to go with, including the ignition immobiliser so no recoding needed (apart from the locks and alarm).

What about the differentials, are they different. They did a 202 55 which might be a good point of reference to see where you might be going with this car.

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi,
I am not considering this lightly, I have wanted to make C55 W202 since 2003 and have read literally hundreds of pages from various American forums, there are in excess of ten of these been done now and the majority of them if not all of them are running with E55 motors with C43 gearboxes and all with the C43's electronics.
There is even one running a supercharger with over 500+ BHP on a drag strip, still with a C43 gearbox, allbeit with additional transmission coolers.
Actually putting the E55 motor in the car and getting it running I,m not worried about in the slightest. Its whether I should put the E55 box in as well.
Differential wise, changing for the E55 unit would require the rear floor pan to be modified and the E55 driveshafts to be fitted, which I,m in two minds to do or not.
I admit that ideally I would like a running E55 as a doner car then I would end up with a C55 W202 and the only E43 W210 in the country.
Though this engine and box is tempting because of the warranted mileage of 53,000 miles, I found myself unable to finance this at present because of the up and coming work I,m having done on the C43.

 

[st4]

Hi,
I am not considering this lightly, I have wanted to make C55 W202 since 2003 and have read literally hundreds of pages from various American forums, there are in excess of ten of these been done now and the majority of them if not all of them are running with E55 motors with C43 gearboxes and all with the C43's electronics.
There is even one running a supercharger with over 500+ BHP on a drag strip, still with a C43 gearbox, allbeit with additional transmission coolers.
Actually putting the E55 motor in the car and getting it running I,m not worried about in the slightest. Its whether I should put the E55 box in as well.
Differential wise, changing for the E55 unit would require the rear floor pan to be modified and the E55 driveshafts to be fitted, which I,m in two minds to do or not.
I admit that ideally I would like a running E55 as a doner car then I would end up with a C55 W202 and the only E43 W210 in the country.
Though this engine and box is tempting because of the warranted mileage of 53,000 miles, I found myself unable to finance this at present because of the up and coming work I,m having done on the C43.

An E55 donar car would be the rolls royce option as you'll have 2 nice cars @ the end of the day. A 202 55 and essentially an E430 + some :mrgreen: and both would be entertainers in different ways

I did see s/c'd C43 for sale on pistonheads, I was led to believe that the C43's gearbox can just about handle the engines torque (by various comments on both forums but I know nothing of these cars really), a 55's engine would have shredded it as MB would never have built the gearbox to tolerate the additional power (90ish) of the 55 motor. However this C43 ran about 400bhp and from the advert it couldn't be determined what upgrading, if any was done to the box, it was a birds coversion. A 55 box would the safer bet, but when it comes to modding floor plans this could be a ££ proposition. Depends on what you're willing to spend.

 

[television]

The gear boxes are not the same, the 55 uses the 722.624 and the 43 the 722.631

 

[st4]

The gear boxes are not the same, the 55 uses the 722.624 and the 43 the 722.631

So if you swap the engine the box needs doing.

I'd assume diffs need doing too? Its an interesting plan but on 1st estimation the more mechanical moving parts that could be taken from the 210 55 the better the conversion. I'd want to swap all the electrics, would a 208 fit the job too as a donar vehicle?

 

[television]

The 208 C55 uses another box the 722.636

All 3 cars use a different diff, the E55 uses a diff from a 220

 

[st4]

Don't make part sharing do they MB? Whats the difference between the boxes as the engine is essentially the same, is it just the ratio's themselves which differ depending on the characteristics MB wanted for the car. Each car that ran the 55 engine would have a box suitable for its torque/power, gearbox failures aren't too common on those so swapping the boxes would surely be best...

Another interesting option for Andy is the prospect of fitting a suitable LSD to the C55 he makes, negating the diff issue altogether.

 

[television]

I think that the job is too big to undertake

 

[bigasotonuk]

I asked MB for a pt. no. for my gearbox, and they cannot give it to me, they actually thought it was a fault with their EPC, they contacted MB Technical in Germany and was told that they could,nt tell me the pt. no. of the gearbox either, and if i required a replacement unit it the pt. no. would have to be sourced from the unit fitted in the car.
Also when a 202033 chassis number is inputted into WIS it lists the car as a C43/C55.
Which I have taken to mean that without the filters WIS should tell me all the pt.'s fitted to the 55 version and the 43 version.
I have spoken to several MB mechanics, and they believe like me that it should be just a direct swap, and I have studied the EPC and as I have said hundreds of posts on American forums and believe fitting will be a straight swap. I will after consideration fit the E55 box too, not because I believe the 43 box will fail, but I believe my torque convertor "could" be on its way.
I have had a lot of people doubt the possibility of this change, but it is something I have not undertaken lightly, I have wieghed up all the factors, like that there are 202's running with 55 lumps on the East and the West coast of the states, I have a copy of a photo diary of an actual 43 to 55 engine change being done, all the posts on varying American forums, and have read similar posts on European forums to.
I may have my doubters, but once I find a suitable engine and box (and finances allow), I will go ahead with the change, as it has just made me more determined.

 

[television]

It keeps you out of trouble with much more expensive hobbies

 

[MarkCL]

Andy - sounds like one heckuva project to say the least! Will you be doing the grease monkey work yourself or are you getting someone else to do it for you? If you're going the DIY route and need a hand then let me know. Always up for this kind of thing Been ages since I got myself knee deep in serious mods like that - I kind of miss it in a masochistic kind of way LOL!

Cheers,
Mark

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the kind offer, and I may take you up on it, I have had a few offers of help and will take them all up as many hands make light work as they say.
I will keep this thread updated on the progress, equally if anyone hears of a doner E55 car or just the engine and box it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dosco]

When you do the work if you could record progress with a camera it would make a truly great post