Electric cars

[Severnless]

@Badger
Yep the running costs are pretty low, there’s a chap on mgevs forum who’s found free rapid chargeing near him so 950 miles in 10 days for nowt but wear and tear.
We’ve only used a dc ccs charger once and was £4.90 fo 21kwh which Is pricey
As said, we tend to charge at home as it suits or needs, but if out and about and there’s a free charge and free space then why not!


As for the Hybrid route, imo the only proven reliable hybrid out there is Toyota and Lexus, so I would look at the Rx 400;450h

That's a great price and with 7 years warranty too! I can't help thinking that a pure elctric will be much more reliable than all this hybrid stuff which gives you all the disadvantages and potential costs of a modern engine with the added pleasure of battery pack worries too - and of course even the premium manufacturers will offer only a 3 year warranty on the whole thing.

Say at 10 years and 130k the battery pack goes completely (and there's no eveidence to suggest it will) and you have to spend 5k on a new one - what could a new C300h or even conventional c220d cost to run in that time - yearly oil change at mercedes and other consumables the motors don't need , new turbo, and a couple of injectors, a few MAFS and a gearbox ECU, and some DPF issue...all things we see all the time on here and add them up and at under 130k miles and you could easily have spent 6k on maintianing the drivetrain already before the MG's warranty even expires!

Although a 5k one-off repair bill on a drivetrain sounds crazy, as long as it is the only drivetrain repair (which the evidence suggests it will be) and will happen once every 8-10 years it actually works out very cheap when correctly amorticised

The main week spot with reliability that I can see being a problem moving forward will be the software, which sounds crazy, but there’s nothing to the mechanical side! So I cant see that being a problem, but they’ve only been out for less than a year! Yet to prove itself with reliability, but as you so rightly put there’s a seven year manufacturers warranty to take there of that!
Let’s face it, leccy cars are in their infancy, so I would be surprised if there’s no problems at all.
All told the MG has been the correct decision for our needs, so will be staying with us for the foreseeable.

I must admit I keep driving my s211 dreading how much it costs to fill up now! And dreading the next time I have to service the thing. But it is a very comfy place to be.

 

[daibevan]

I am beginning to think that I will keep my Merc going as long as feasibly possible. As I am already doing mostly short journeys and this will become even more the norm as I get older I think I may eventually go electric and then hire a decent car for any long road trips. Though by then you probably won't be able to hire a decent petrol car. If I can keep mine going long enough you may be able to get a second hand electric car with good distance at a sensible price for a mean old codger.( I will be meaner and older by then)

 

[Severnless]

To update this old thread, I’ve just purchased a brand new MG5 ev exclusive in bright red, pick it up next week!
My first ever brand new car!

As my work life has changed and I don’t need an E class mile muncher anymore, also I’ve been so impressed with Mrs Severnless’s MG ZS ev and MG are still running the NHS affinity scheme, just made sense for me to go for one.
So looking forward to lugging all my tools round for next to nothing running costs.
So that just leaves me needing to mot the Merc s211 then put it up for sale for cheap!

 

[Severnless]

Just thought I would put a piccy of my first ever brand new EV car.

Only put 600 miles on it so far, really pleased with it, had to take it back last week to have the option alloys fitted as they were on back order.
Also had tints fitted all round

 

[Tony Dyson]

To update this old thread, I’ve just purchased a brand new MG5 ev exclusive in bright red, pick it up next week!
My first ever brand new car!

As my work life has changed and I don’t need an E class mile muncher anymore, also I’ve been so impressed with Mrs Severnless’s MG ZS ev and MG are still running the NHS affinity scheme, just made sense for me to go for one.
So looking forward to lugging all my tools round for next to nothing running costs.
So that just leaves me needing to mot the Merc s211 then put it up for sale for cheap!

Congratulations, the MG's are proving to be a popular choice!
Just out of interest, what charging solution have you installed for two EV's from a domestic supply?

 

[Severnless]

We just use the smart Ohme tethered type 2, basically a 32amp relay box, only have the one for both cars, as Mrs Severnless is on 12 months adoption leave and I’m self employed, we get along just fine.
We have changed our tariff from octopus Agile to their GO tariff which gives us 4hours at 5p/kwh
This is more than enough for our usage as the ZS has 163mile wltp and the 5 has 216 miles wltp
All told I’m so glad to have gone Ev especially since fuel prices are starting to rise and Birmingham low emission zone has kicked in last week.
It’s a nice smug feeling to finally drive past the petrol station!
If you want to know more then Just ask.

 

[M80]

If you want to know more then Just ask.

I am happy for those that can afford to enjoy the benefits of wealth.
I can appreciate the silent motoring aspect, and being a bit older I can't appreciate boy racers drilling their exhaust for effect.

I do resent our tax dollar subsiding this attempt to meet ridiculous green targets while overlooking the fact that EV's are definitely not green.

I view, as with so much these days, it's all about business profits and the tax revenues to Gov't's. In other words while there is so much financial incentive we are not to learn the true incentives of the directions we are manipulated toward.

You commented much earlier that the charging issues need to be addressed.
VW advertise that they are partnering with Tesco for some of that, no issues there.
I read some issues in London where the convenience to charge 'is 'an issue, no surprise there. This will be repeated at an increasing rate nationally where EV take up accelerates.
Who should carry the responsibility of a charging infrastructure, and more importantly who should pay for the installations?

The EV revolution is coming (that comment ignores other vaguely possible technological introductions), but I see it shall increase the division between those that can afford and the others that will be told to walk more and travel less. A restriction to freedom in effect.
Meanwhile those being denied the advantage will still be taxed for the advantage of those that can.
I'm no socialist, honestly.

 

[Severnless]

I am happy for those that can afford to enjoy the benefits of wealth.
I can appreciate the silent motoring aspect, and being a bit older I can't appreciate boy racers drilling their exhaust for effect.

I do resent our tax dollar subsiding this attempt to meet ridiculous green targets while overlooking the fact that EV's are definitely not green.

I view, as with so much these days, it's all about business profits and the tax revenues to Gov't's. In other words while there is so much financial incentive we are not to learn the true incentives of the directions we are manipulated toward.

You commented much earlier that the charging issues need to be addressed.
VW advertise that they are partnering with Tesco for some of that, no issues there.
I read some issues in London where the convenience to charge 'is 'an issue, no surprise there. This will be repeated at an increasing rate nationally where EV take up accelerates.
Who should carry the responsibility of a charging infrastructure, and more importantly who should pay for the installations?

The EV revolution is coming (that comment ignores other vaguely possible technological introductions), but I see it shall increase the division between those that can afford and the others that will be told to walk more and travel less. A restriction to freedom in effect.
Meanwhile those being denied the advantage will still be taxed for the advantage of those that can.
I'm no socialist, honestly.

Good post, thank you

I will say to you, I’ve worked ****** hard to earn the ‘wealth’ ( your words) and given up alot to Get here, but I’ve got to add, this isn’t a £50k Benz.....It’s a £20k mg and as said before it’s the first new car I’ve ever had.

If it was a petrol car would you be posting a comment on my benefits of my wealth?

FYI I ain’t a wealthy person......

Yes the charging infrastructure is woefully inadequate, but when the horse and cart was ‘the’ mode of transport, im sure your local shell station weren’t selling premium then.
I do also hope that the guberment will step in and use my and your tax dollars to improve the infrastructure as It is definitely needed (due to so many inadequate private company’s)
(We only tend to charge at home, so only need a rapid charge when on a 3/400 mile journey)

Yes there are guberment incentives to purchasing Ev’s, just like when they pushed weisel cars as they were soooo Green, did you buy one way back then? Or have one purchased for you as a company car?
But the incentives are decreasing, ( picg has dropped £500 a couple of months back) and they have capped it to below £30k. Does that cheer you up?

For your green issue, yep ev’s are not green in any way shape or form, when built, nothing is though is it? What about your pc or your phone or your refrigerator or your freezer in fact anything that is manufactured isn’t green.
When I took delivery of the car I’m sure it was transported using a wagon, train, ship, as I’m sure your car / motor bike were.
Now I’m sure you are going to mention the manufacturing of the batteries and the mines for the raw materials?

Look all I will say, is having 2 leccy cars makes sense to us for our current situation, both financially and life situation.

Should I share our cars with the whole street? (Which I’m sure you do?)










All in my honest opinion.

 

[M80]

Severnless my post wasn't designed as a personal attack.
Wealth is comparative. While £20k isn't a great amount for a car there are many that couldn't attain such. Those with, for eg. a £10K mo mo may well soon be priced off the road by national Gov't 'initiatives, and as you are attempting to head off the local gov't doing their own.

I have no issue with persons taking full advantage of whatever to overcome the increasing onslaught of penalties. The Gov't give us the tools, we must employ them as best for personal advantage.

As said I'm pleased for you, don't blame you one bit, and hope you get all you can from the mo mo's.
But I still feel the world is increasingly barmy, corrupt and those at the lower end are going to suffer. And for much more reasons that EV developments.
Those politicians that are designing all this will sit pretty, and as has been seen, look after their mates along the way. More doing to us rather than for us.

I've no intention of taking a silly righteous stance on any of this. If a Leccy car suited I would buy tomorrow.
My ex motorbike at 42mpg was purely for fun, as it couldn't carry much for work purposes.
Likely my Chinese phone has been assembled by some poor sucker working 16hrs for a pittance, prior to it being transported by whatever chokes the planet to get it here.
A personal view is that the majority of these Save The Planet initiatives are merely money makers for the already well heeled and corrupt, because they wont do any more than defer our destruction of this place by more than a week or two.

Enjoy, we all deserve to.

 

[Blobcat]

I do wonder if all cars, trucks, buses, white goods and other domestic appliances were all made with a minimum of a 30 year lifespan what the overall effect on the environment would be?

I don't think manufacturers would like it as they wouldn't sell as much and that's what it's all about for them. I really don't like the rampant consumerism we appear to have made four ourselves where only the newest will do.

My phone is 5 years old and I'm probably going to have to upgrade it as it's increasingly slow - despite clearing out all that I can the "Other and System" memory requirements keep increasing and slowing performance. It also won't hold a charge all day anymore - I could with some disassembly change the battery but it's not going to fix the memory issues. The "upgrades" are generally "downgrades" for older tech...

 

[M80]

It used to be common to replace mobile batteries.
As I'm sure we will see with EV's they now last longer. But phones are invariably sealed for life.

With EV's I can see modular battery packs being standardised.
Drive over a pit and automated change of the selected number of cells are swapped out, a refuel.
By then the home charging will be taxed and the 2 methods will be a comparable cost.

Or summat like.

 

[Blobcat]

It used to be common to replace mobile batteries.
As I'm sure we will see with EV's they now last longer. But phones are invariably sealed for life.

With EV's I can see modular battery packs being standardised.
Drive over a pit and automated change of the selected number of cells are swapped out, a refuel.
By then the home charging will be taxed and the 2 methods will be a comparable cost.

Or summat like.

Manufacturers and legislators “could” have mandated it so that you don’t buy the battery, you just go to a service station and a charged set gets slotted into the standard slot.
All you do is change the batteries each time you need to “refuel” and it’s the service stations that charge them

 

[Severnless]

I do wonder if all cars, trucks, buses, white goods and other domestic appliances were all made with a minimum of a 30 year lifespan what the overall effect on the environment would be?

I don't think manufacturers would like it as they wouldn't sell as much and that's what it's all about for them. I really don't like the rampant consumerism we appear to have made four ourselves where only the newest will do.

My phone is 5 years old and I'm probably going to have to upgrade it as it's increasingly slow - despite clearing out all that I can the "Other and System" memory requirements keep increasing and slowing performance. It also won't hold a charge all day anymore - I could with some disassembly change the battery but it's not going to fix the memory issues. The "upgrades" are generally "downgrades" for older tech...

I just wish the manufacturers would make stuff that would last a life time, but that’s not what we are told to do.
Hence the new phone every year that seems to be pushed.... I’ve had to change my i6 to a i10 as like you the phone kept crashing and was slow also wouldn’t last a day on battery, but it lasted me 4 years which I thought wasn’t to bad, but it’s not a patch on my old Nokia 5310 which lasted a looonnnggg time, but it was just a phone.
(Have you ever sent a text with one?!) lol
Writing this has reminded me of my parents microwave that they purchased in 1980 and they still have it, it’s been handed through the family and gone back to them, massive thing with a clockwork timer and a proper bell.
Still works as well as the day they had it new.

I thought that having a Merc would last a long time but my life situation changed and I got fed up with the constant maintenance (just had the brake lines replaced!) this is on a 14 year old car, which I think is ridiculous on a high end car......
My first car, I built when I was 16, I saved up all my weekend money that earned from the age of 13, working in a supermarket and cafe, to buy a kit car (NCF Dimond for those who are interested) it took me 12 months and I used 2x mk5 cortina that I brought from a scrapyard, built it completely on my own, including spraying and finishing.
So manufacturers can make things that can last, also encourage recycling ( back then!) but now like you said no one is encouraged to upcycle / repair anything these days.

So im hoping that our evs are going to be like my parents microwave, last a long time. Well mg seem to think they will last at least 7 years, But we will see.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Manufacturers and legislators “could” have mandated it so that you don’t buy the battery, you just go to a service station and a charged set gets slotted into the standard slot.
All you do is change the batteries each time you need to “refuel” and it’s the service stations that charge them

No, they couldn’t. The battery forms part of the crash structure (even the 12V starter battery does in an ICE car) so every single carmaker would have to align their platform design standards together to allow for a standardised battery. Let alone the mechanics of being able to pull it from the car. Just wouldn’t, couldn’t happen. Look how long it took for USB to become adopted and the tech battles fought over connector standards in that arena.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I just wish the manufacturers would make stuff that would last a life time, but that’s not what we are told to do.
Hence the new phone every year that seems to be pushed.... I’ve had to change my i6 to a i10 as like you the phone kept crashing and was slow also wouldn’t last a day on battery, but it lasted me 4 years which I thought wasn’t to bad, but it’s not a patch on my old Nokia 5310 which lasted a looonnnggg time, but it was just a phone.
(Have you ever sent a text with one?!) lol
Writing this has reminded me of my parents microwave that they purchased in 1980 and they still have it, it’s been handed through the family and gone back to them, massive thing with a clockwork timer and a proper bell.
Still works as well as the day they had it new.

I thought that having a Merc would last a long time but my life situation changed and I got fed up with the constant maintenance (just had the brake lines replaced!) this is on a 14 year old car, which I think is ridiculous on a high end car......
My first car, I built when I was 16, I saved up all my weekend money that earned from the age of 13, working in a supermarket and cafe, to buy a kit car (NCF Dimond for those who are interested) it took me 12 months and I used 2x mk5 cortina that I brought from a scrapyard, built it completely on my own, including spraying and finishing.
So manufacturers can make things that can last, also encourage recycling ( back then!) but now like you said no one is encouraged to upcycle / repair anything these days.

So im hoping that our evs are going to be like my parents microwave, last a long time. Well mg seem to think they will last at least 7 years, But we will see.

Cars are designed to last 8.1 years for the first owner on average. That is the global median now.

Manufacturers can make “things” to last a lifetime. How much of a premium are you willing to pay for that longevity? 1000%? 10000%? It all costs. Also look at technology. Sure, you think it doesn’t affect you, but it does in a million little ways every day. Let’s look at, oh I dunno, everyday household & domestic items from the 60s. 3-ring hobs with overhead grilles, the Morris 1000 Traveller as the practical family car of the decade, 3 channels on the black & white telly, twin tub washing machines… would you still like to be using that sort of tech on a day to day basis? Of course not. Technology matches on.

 

[Blobcat]

No, they couldn’t. The battery forms part of the crash structure (even the 12V starter battery does in an ICE car) so every single carmaker would have to align their platform design standards together to allow for a standardised battery. Let alone the mechanics of being able to pull it from the car. Just wouldn’t, couldn’t happen. Look how long it took for USB to become adopted and the tech battles fought over connector standards in that arena.

Yes they could, plenty of examples of shared platforms across manufacturers in the past (and now (Renault and Mercedes etc etc)
It would require a level of cooperation and litigation to make it happen but if the will was there then it could be done - as the push for EV's is purely for environmental reasons according to the worlds law makers then perhaps they should start focusing on the environment rather than keep the manufacturing plants running churning out ever more complex and ever more unreliable and short lived tat.

 

[Craiglxviii]

Yes they could, plenty of examples of shared platforms across manufacturers in the past (and now (Renault and Mercedes etc etc)
It would require a level of cooperation and litigation to make it happen but if the will was there then it could be done - as the push for EV's is purely for environmental reasons according to the worlds law makers then perhaps they should start focusing on the environment rather than keep the manufacturing plants running churning out ever more complex and ever more unreliable and short lived tat.

No. Sorry. The shared platforms are straight up commercial opportunity being realised; either badge engineering or platform sharing to reduce the design content required.

It wouldn’t require a level of cooperation, it would be practically impossible. Remember, the proposal here is for a common battery that can be swapped out without tools by unskilled labour and shared across different vehicles. That means that the battery has to either meet all of every single carmaker’s crash standards, or every single carmaker has crash standards artificially imposed upon them (by which agency, controlled by who?) just to allow the car to drive safely on the road. Then the car has to be designed to flip its cab up and pop the battery out. A battery weighs about 150kg so every “swapping station” will need lifting gear, all rated and tested and inspected and risk assessed on a yearly basis….. can you see the logistical problems alone? It’s far easier, cheaper, simpler, better and safer to optimise the battery to the car and safely lock it in place. Otherwise, you know, they’d have designed it a bit differently.

Look at mobile phones. How many have user-swappable batteries? Why are the batteries hard-designed into the units? Why have phones moved away from being user-changeable?

 

[M80]

I imagine there will be attempt to introduce a standard,
I believe chargers are becoming more standardized already. But I've no experience.

So the 1st tries to win the game with the 1st introduction of a modular idea, if a 2nd does then the competition like VHS / Betamax ensues.

I don't see the engineering to replace standard modules as being too complicated to become automated. Large cars more modules. Longer journey ahead and more modules exchanged in anticipation.

Over a pit to exchange from below seems logical.

 

[M80]

What is the weight lifting ability of thousands of lifts and escalators. These are regularly inspected and passed as fit.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I imagine there will be attempt to introduce a standard,
I believe chargers are becoming more standardized already. But I've no experience.

So the 1st tries to win the game with the 1st introduction of a modular idea, if a 2nd does then the competition like VHS / Betamax ensues.

I don't see the engineering to replace standard modules as being too complicated to become automated. Large cars more modules. Longer journey ahead and more modules exchanged in anticipation.

Over a pit to exchange from below seems logical.

Over a pit. Who is liable if the underside anti corrosion coating gets broken during a routine swap out? What about if the undertray gets broken? Not fitted properly causing a collision?

There are standard battery modules already being introduced. Al the cell level; each battery gets built up from them. That’s what LG are into right now. They’ve been around for a few years now. The principle is for ease of manufacture of the battery btw and not for any sort of finished item standardisation.

Chargers. Europe is going with ChaDeMo which is a French standard, but there are 5 main competing ones just in Europe right now. It’s likely that this will be a more rapidly solvable issue than anything else suggested so far!

The engineering issues for a globally accepted roadside tool-less swappable battery module are totally insurmountable given the basic principles of a free market economy. And they don’t even come close to the logistical issues of managing fleets of those batteries in charging stations everywhere.