Engine transplant

[Mercv8]

I asked the question in another thread but thought it would be better to start a new thread on it.

What things need to be taken into consideration if transplanting a much more powerful engine and trans into an older car.

For example a 5.5 Litre amg engine into a 500 SE. Would it fit is my initial thoughts lol.

But would the driveshaft obviously also need to be changed, and exhaust etc?

I got the idea from Television when he suggested i buy the AMG engine on ebay lol

But it did get me thinking.. But is it possible?

 

[whitenemesis]

Driveshaft, gearbox, mounts, exhaust(s)
Probably radiator, definately brakes Possibly springs and shocks.

Engine swaps almost always very involved, made easier if the bigger engine was an option originally. Lots of work but ultimately very satisfying

 

[ben12345]

If you've got deep pockets, lots of time and patience, anything is possible.
You'll have lots of wiring to play with, i'd be tempted to stick with a mechanical gear box like you've already got, and go with an aftermarket engine management set up.

Here is some useful information on a m119 conversion into an SEC.
http://www.mbcoupes.com/memberscars/T/satishtummala/page1.htm

I think the same guy now has a m120 6.0 V12 in his car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vm-4SL4BvA

 

[Mercv8]

If you've got deep pockets, lots of time and patience, anything is possible.
You'll have lots of wiring to play with, i'd be tempted to stick with a mechanical gear box like you've already got, and go with an aftermarket engine management set up.

Here is some useful information on a m119 conversion into an SEC.
http://www.mbcoupes.com/memberscars/T/satishtummala/page1.htm

I think the same guy now has a m120 6.0 V12 in his car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vm-4SL4BvA

Hmmm..

This does sound a better option.

That m120 V12 is awesome. That engine would fit in mine then. But would i not have to maybe change my gearbox.

Thing is, i have no idea roughly how much it would cost, but id be willing to part with 3k to get their atleast.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[ben12345]

I think for 3k, your going to have to do a hell of a lot of work yourself. I would figure nearly half that for just the engine. I know a good M117 5.6 engine goes for 800 or so at a breakers, so an M119 or M120 must fetch a bit. Remember you'll need all the ancilliaries too, as your power steering pump, air conditioning compressor and alternator is likely to not bolt up to the later engines.

I think to fit the M120 would require a custom driveshaft, and the bulkhead modifying a bit to get it to fit in physically. M119 is a safer option in my opinion.

Like I said before, I think using an aftermarket engine management would be the easiest route, unless your dead set on using the Mercedes computers and electronic transmission etc.
I'd like to maybe transplant an M119 into a W126 SEC in the future, but then again, there is always the route of forced induction of the original M117. There is a guy in the US who is putting together twin turbo kits for future release, and there are other people who do supercharger kits.
I always get reminded of the twin turbo 450SEL 6.9 I once saw pictures of.

Here is another good thread about transplanting an M120
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=178997

 

[Mercv8]

Thanks for the link ben, thats a quality conversion.

Would it not be feasible to use the Driveshaft from a S600 M120 engine, and trans and stick that in mine? The biggest pain in the backside would be the wiring i imagine.. Cos you get that wrong and well..

I thought about the supercharging route, but dont know anyone as yet who has done a kit for the w126? Also, how long would the engine hold out for? Would the transmission be able to handle it?

If you could point me in the direction of someone who does a supercharging kit that would be great!

 

[Alfie]

You should speak to Ian B Walker on the www.mbclub.co.uk forum.

He has a wealth of knowledge and experience of engine transplants.

He is currently shoe horning a V8 3.8 litre unit into a 190E!

 

[ben12345]

I think forced induction is pretty safe with the old M117 engine, as they all seem to use pretty low compression ratios, with the exception of one or two variations, which are still not that high.
The transmission wouldn't even feel it... The same one is used in my Porsche 928, and people supercharge those quite regularly to 450-500 crank HP.
Its the length of the driveshaft that would be different. I can imagine one from a W140 s600 is even longer than in an W126 SEL
Agreed about the wiring. The old K jet engine I pulled out of my 500SEL on Saturday only had about 10 wires going to it.
I'll see if I can find out who was offering a supercharger kit in the US and ge back to you on it. Koenig do one, but its far from in your budget!

Here a link to a thread about a guy who a installed twin turbo kit to a 500SEL
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=174388

 

[Mercv8]

Thanks for the link Alfie.

I'll see if I can find out who was offering a supercharger kit in the US and ge back to you on it. Koenig do one, but its far from in your budget!

That would be great cheers Ben!

Intresting to know Koenig do one.. But i imagine it would be silly money.

 

[television]

Thanks for the link Alfie.


That would be great cheers Ben!

Intresting to know Koenig do one.. But i imagine it would be silly money.

At least with blowing it you do not increase the fuel consumption out of reason.

Good luck with the project .

Malcolm

 

[Mercv8]

At least with blowing it you do not increase the fuel consumption out of reason.

Good luck with the project .

Malcolm

Sorry how do you mean Malc? lol

 

[television]

Sorry how do you mean Malc? lol

A blower is a super charger,just a slang word for it,these things do not involve too much work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots_type_supercharger

malcolm

 

[Mercv8]

Cool lol.

Roughly what kind of power increase should i see from the m117 5 litre engine. Mines without cat so think its around 280 BHP?

Are they good for low end torque? Like say when on part throttle?

 

[television]

Cool lol.

Roughly what kind of power increase should i see from the m117 5 litre engine. Mines without cat so think its around 280 BHP?

Are they good for low end torque? Like say when on part throttle?

I think that if you do a Google search Super charger,Blowers you will find much more info than I can give, its a long time since I did these things, or maybe someone else will come on with more info.

Malcolm

 

[ben12345]

The M117.965 without cat is rated at either 180, 185 or 195Kw depending on version, so 245, 252 or 265 BHP respectively. Check your option codes for the 'High output engine option' or use a VIN lookup tool, maybe that will tell you the version.
Sounds strange, but the lower output engine as standard can probably be boosted higher than the high output engine could. This is due to the lower output engine having a lower compression ratio, which is ideal for turbo/supercharging.
As a general rule of thumb, adding a supercharger/turbocharger gives about 40-50% more power without messing about with engine internals.

Ben

 

[Mercv8]

On the subject of the engines, which out of the m119 and m120 would you guys suggest is the most reliable?

 

[ben12345]

I'd say the M119. Far less to go wrong on it, and from what I hear, they are even stronger and more resistant to abuse than the iron blocked M117's.

 

[Mercv8]

Right.

Been in contact with Ian Works, who really seems to know his stuff and a very nice bloke too.

Going to go for a M119 5.0L setup - Bored out to a 5.2 - 5.4L hopfully.

All to be confirmed soonish..