Genuine Question

Splatt

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
408
Reaction score
0
Location
That Nook Shotten Isle of Albion
Can those in the know advise if a repaired and resprayed area of a new car if done by main dealer is equal to and as good as an original and unadulterated car ?
 

hawk20

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
4,971
Reaction score
10
Your Mercedes
ML250 BlueTEC Sport
No it is not IMO. In the factory the paint on a Mercedes is baked on at high temperatures and guaranteed far longer than you get on a repaint. Approved bodyshops give a 1 year guarantee topped up to 2 years by MBUK.

Must depend partly on the amount of damage and where it occurs. All steel panels are fully galvanised. If that is damaged you have lost some protection.
 

Attachments

  • Galvanised A Class.jpg
    Galvanised A Class.jpg
    23 KB · Views: 10
Last edited:

hawk20

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
4,971
Reaction score
10
Your Mercedes
ML250 BlueTEC Sport
You’ll find this an interesting article on Mercedes paint processes: -
http://www.ae-plus.com/Key topics/kt-materials8.htm


And for those having repairs or paintwork done this letter from my local MB approved bodyshop is interesting too: -
The new scratch-resistant lacquer, which has a brand-name of Ceramiclear, is extensively used on Mercedes Benz passenger cars and was applied on-line in the factory from 2002 on the more expensive range, then moved onto all productive models, with the exception of the A Class and derivatives, which uses dry-slurry technology which flows when baked. Vehicles painted in Ceramiclear are identified by the letter ‘C’ or ‘K’ before or after the colour code on the VIN sticker on the offside ‘B’ pillar.
At the factory, all vehicles are finished in High-Bake paints based upon Acrylic materials. The bodyshell is painted and then subjected to high-temperature baking on a conveyor belt. As the shell is made of either steel or alluminium, depending on what model it is, it is possible to do this. However, once windscreens, interior trim and the mechanical components are added, this is no longer possible as they would all melt or crack. Therefore, when a vehicle is painted post-manufacture, the next best product has to be used, which is low-bake acrylic material. This is formulated to respond to temperatures from +5 degrees Centigrade once the hardener has been added to the clear lacquer and accelerates in hardening time as the temperature is increased. Therefore, if a car is sprayed and left to air-dry at the present temperature range, it would be hard enough to work on in the morning but if one takes the temperature up to 80 degrees, it is ready to come out of the oven after 40 minutes and, after standing for around 30 minutes, is hard enough to denib, polish then fit up.
As a matter of interest, the plastic components of a car are painted in low-bake material in a separate part of the factory as they cannot be baked at those temperatures such as the bodywork is. These are then taken to the vehicle to be assembled and are often a slightly different shade of colour to the body due to a different material being used. A flexible additive is added to this material to allow it to flex with the softer base product, otherwise if it were made too hard it would crack or craze, rather like icing on a jelly! The plastic parts do not have scratch-resistant lacquer, only the bodywork, because I understand that the flexible additive negates the point of hard lacquer.
Essentially, MB U.K only approve two paint brands for repair work, namely Spies-Hecker and Glasurit, the former being manufactured by the Du-Pont group and the latter by BASF coatings, two of the biggest chemical manufacturers in the World. We use Spies-Hecker and the scratch-resistant lacquer, which contains minute particles of ceramic, make the fully-cured material very hard. The low-bake version of this lacquer, which is what we use, was developed after the high-bake material so that the refinishing market could replicate the factory technology and it is approved by MB as part of the Mobilo Life paint warranty.
I hope this clarifies the situation. The above information is as we understand the situation to be, based upon what we are told by the Paint Manufacturer and when attending MB courses and conferences so we believe it to be true!
Regards
Mike Whitley
Partner, Triangle Sprays
 
OP
Splatt

Splatt

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
408
Reaction score
0
Location
That Nook Shotten Isle of Albion
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #4
Thanks Guys those replies really shed light on the fact that a damage repair is not a patch on the original.
Can I now ask part 2 of what is a more relevant question. As many new cars get damaged on delivery and are put through the bodyshop in the PDI process, how can the purchaser detect if his new car has been buqqerised. Is it possible to detect a respray from the texture of the surface or is the only way to use a paint thickness meter ?
 

hawk20

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
4,971
Reaction score
10
Your Mercedes
ML250 BlueTEC Sport
Thanks Guys those replies really shed light on the fact that a damage repair is not a patch on the original.
Can I now ask part 2 of what is a more relevant question. As many new cars get damaged on delivery and are put through the bodyshop in the PDI process, how can the purchaser detect if his new car has been buqqerised. Is it possible to detect a respray from the texture of the surface or is the only way to use a paint thickness meter ?

Some can tell or claim they can. But normal folks rarely notice. Also bear in mind that large numbers of secondhand cars have been repaired and there is no obligation on people to reveal any accidents they have had when selling.

According to RAC statistics 65% of all corporately driven vehicles are involved in a crash every 12 months (cars & commercials). N.B. figs do not include private vehicles used on company business!
RAC site. Business users section. Useful Information. Then choose Fleet Statistics
http://www.rac.co.uk/business/information/fleet_statistics

As for private accidents it is reckoned that over 80% go unreported.
 
OP
Splatt

Splatt

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
408
Reaction score
0
Location
That Nook Shotten Isle of Albion
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #6
Some can tell or claim they can. But normal folks rarely notice. Also bear in mind that large numbers of secondhand cars have been repaired and there is no obligation on people to reveal any accidents they have had when selling.

According to RAC statistics 65% of all corporately driven vehicles are involved in a crash every 12 months (cars & commercials). N.B. figs do not include private vehicles used on company business!
RAC site. Business users section. Useful Information. Then choose Fleet Statistics
http://www.rac.co.uk/business/information/fleet_statistics

As for private accidents it is reckoned that over 80% go unreported.
I was really asking about NEW cars. Ie cars on delivery zero mileage from the manufacturer that get dinged in transit.
 

Xtractorfan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,084
Reaction score
156
Your Mercedes
S class
A properly executed repair using proper materials from any of the recognised paint companies will last as long as the original as painted by the manufacturer..
I have seen repaired and replaced panels on cars outlast the manufacturers original paintwork..
You have to remember that MB or any other car maker do not make paint, it is made by the paint companies, who also make the aftermarket paints..
And all 2k lacquers on the market today are now labelled as scratch resistant...

The only foolproof way of detecting a repainted panel is to use a paint depth guage, but there again a panel on a new car could have been repainted at the factory due to online damage...
 
Last edited:

hawk20

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
4,971
Reaction score
10
Your Mercedes
ML250 BlueTEC Sport
I was really asking about NEW cars. Ie cars on delivery zero mileage from the manufacturer that get dinged in transit.

I realise you were. I was merely pointing out that the problem also exists with numerous secondhand cars where many cannot tell that it has been repaired.

I have seen many repaired cars where the repaired area doesn't last anything like as long as the original. But I have also seen others where the repair has been good for years. May depend on how bad the damage is as well as how well it is repaired.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
I realise you were. I was merely pointing out that the problem also exists with numerous secondhand cars where many cannot tell that it has been repaired.

I have seen many repaired cars where the repaired area doesn't last anything like as long as the original. But I have also seen others where the repair has been good for years. May depend on how bad the damage is as well as how well it is repaired.

Well if the repaired cars that you have seen look worse than the original after a short time, all I can say is thank god I will never get to use an MB outlet for that,

As xrtactorfan done correctly it is as good and you would not detect it. By what you are say is that a car without Nano paint say on a 2003 203 must look worse that a Nano painted car, and that just is not true,, even though the new paint is identical by make and the way that it is sprayed on.

The repaired cars that you have seen that look worse. have just been badly painted
 

hawk20

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
4,971
Reaction score
10
Your Mercedes
ML250 BlueTEC Sport
Well if the repaired cars that you have seen look worse than the original after a short time, all I can say is thank god I will never get to use an MB outlet for that,

As xrtactorfan done correctly it is as good and you would not detect it. By what you are say is that a car without Nano paint say on a 2003 203 must look worse that a Nano painted car, and that just is not true,, even though the new paint is identical by make and the way that it is sprayed on.

The repaired cars that you have seen that look worse. have just been badly painted

I am afraid that -as so often- you are misquoting me.

I did not say 'after a short time', nor that they were all, or even some, repaired at an MB approved bodyshop. I said: -
I have seen many repaired cars where the repaired area doesn't last anything like as long as the original. But I have also seen others where the repair has been good for years. May depend on how bad the damage is as well as how well it is repaired.

BTW I also said nothing about Nano paints looking better or worse.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
Originally Posted by hawk20 View Post
I am afraid that -as so often- you are misquoting me.

Please reply then so that things cannot be taken more than one way

I did not say 'after a short time', nor that they were all, or even some, repaired at an MB approved bodyshop. I said: -
I have seen many repaired cars where the repaired area doesn't last anything like as long as the original. But I have also seen others where the repair has been good for years.

Please clarify in what you mean by lasting

it May depend on how bad the damage is as well as how well it is repaired.

This has nothing to do with it

BTW I also said nothing about Nano paints looking better or worse.

Some cars that you have seen would have had the Nano paint to start with, and been repaired. that repair would look no different to a car with normal paint that had not been repaired, if you can see any difference on a repaired car, then its a badly done paint job
 

hawk20

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
4,971
Reaction score
10
Your Mercedes
ML250 BlueTEC Sport
Originally Posted by hawk20 View Post
I am afraid that -as so often- you are misquoting me.

Please reply then so that things cannot be taken more than one way

I did not say 'after a short time', nor that they were all, or even some, repaired at an MB approved bodyshop. I said: -
I have seen many repaired cars where the repaired area doesn't last anything like as long as the original. But I have also seen others where the repair has been good for years.

Please clarify in what you mean by lasting

it May depend on how bad the damage is as well as how well it is repaired.

This has nothing to do with it

BTW I also said nothing about Nano paints looking better or worse.

Some cars that you have seen would have had the Nano paint to start with, and been repaired. that repair would look no different to a car with normal paint that had not been repaired, if you can see any difference on a repaired car, then its a badly done paint job

Why not go and pick a fight with someone else? I said nothing in my posting about Nano paints, and drew no comparisons with how a repaired car with Nano paint would look compared with a car without Nano paint.

This is what I said -nothing more and nothing less: -
I have seen many repaired cars where the repaired area doesn't last anything like as long as the original. But I have also seen others where the repair has been good for years. May depend on how bad the damage is as well as how well it is repaired.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
Why not go and pick a fight with someone else? I said nothing in my posting about Nano paints, and drew no comparisons with how a repaired car with Nano paint would look compared with a car without Nano paint.

This is what I said -nothing more and nothing less: -
I have seen many repaired cars where the repaired area doesn't last anything like as long as the original. But I have also seen others where the repair has been good for years. May depend on how bad the damage is as well as how well it is repaired.

And you cannot answer as to how the repairs do not look as good,,its a simple enough answer surely,,I mean you said that you have seen these things
 

hawk20

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
4,971
Reaction score
10
Your Mercedes
ML250 BlueTEC Sport
And you cannot answer as to how the repairs do not look as good,,its a simple enough answer surely,,I mean you said that you have seen these things

Perhaps I am hoping -in vain it seems- for you to apologise for misquoting me completely and then attacking me for holding views that I have never expressed.

If you've had a bad day and want a verbal punch-up with someone, choose someone else. I have enough problems at the moment.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
I have had a wonderful day thank you and a very nice meal out :D:D Kind of you to ask:D


Now, back to these repairs that do not look so good after a bit,,what was wrong with them,, was it orange peel, over spray, pin holing, blooming, crazing, sinking,lifting,water marking,or what. Please say as we are very interested in what you have seen
 

hawk20

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
4,971
Reaction score
10
Your Mercedes
ML250 BlueTEC Sport
I have had a wonderful day thank you and a very nice meal out :D:D Kind of you to ask:D


Now, back to these repairs that do not look so good after a bit,,what was wrong with them,, was it orange peel, over spray, pin holing, blooming, crazing, sinking,lifting,water marking,or what. Please say as we are very interested in what you have seen

If you want a bag to punch, go buy a punchbag.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
If you want a bag to punch, go buy a punchbag.

I only asked you a question about what you said,,as I am very interested in paints. I did take best car in the show with a car that I sprayed.

I have to explain many times of most of my answers
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
I really thought that you might answer this time when asked.

There is no rudeness or anything else, and I only asked what was wrong with the bad repairs that you had seen, in order to help the OP with his question, and something that many members are interested in .

Thank you
 

hawk20

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
4,971
Reaction score
10
Your Mercedes
ML250 BlueTEC Sport
I refer you to my posting number 14.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
332
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
I refer you to my posting number 14.

OK I have read 14 and that does not give an answer re the poor paint jobs that you have seen, you have avoided it every time asked, and other members can see that you will not / cannot answer what you said.

You also said that it depends on how bad the damage was, and I cannot tie this in either to a lasting repair.

My questions were genuine as I am very interested in bodywork
 

Peter Best Insurance is a leading specialist in Mercedes-Benz insurance. All MBO members are eligible for exclusive rates on all our classic car policies.
Call now for our 'BEST' quote. Tel: 01376 573033
Top Bottom