hammerite underseal with waxoil (Black stuff)

[tonye230]

Hi all

Has anyone any opions on the (hammerite underseal with waxoyl (Black stuff)

As this is something I think I can paint on.

Or is the spray on waxoyl the better option.

Really need to get wings undersealed as last car E230 was very bad on rust on wheel arches.

Tony C320 X Reg

Colchester
Essex

 

[type49]

I wouldn't use hammerite, it dries too hard & doesn't allow for the natural flexing of steel. It's fine on iron gates but no good on a car as movement will cause it to crack, allowing water underneath.

 

[television]

Waxoil is fine on its own, clean out most of the mud on the inner edge

 

[Xtractorfan]

The waxoyl based underseal is an excellent product as it is 50/50 waxoyl and bitumen based underseal, so I would recommend it for underneath any vehicle, it is tough and self sealing and never hardens fully.. so quite a good product, also has some sound deadening qualities....

 

[Juddian]

My pick up's chassis is sprayed with the stuff, seems to be working, it is paintable too.

Ordinary waxoyl is better for getting into the nooks and crannies though, so i use a combination of the two.

 

[SilverSaloon]

I wouldn't use hammerite, it dries too hard & doesn't allow for the natural flexing of steel. It's fine on iron gates but no good on a car as movement will cause it to crack, allowing water underneath.

he means the "Hammerite Waxoil with underseal" stuff not the normal hammerite paint. The underseal stuff remains very slightly tacky and therefore flexable.

i'm using this on my R107 restoration. i'm painting it on. i'm using the spray stuff for the chassis box sections and sills of the car.

 

[BillN_33]

Won't mud and therefore moisture stick to this stuff - say if it is put in the usual Merc rust areas?

 

[television]

Won't mud and therefore moisture stick to this stuff - say if it is put in the usual Merc rust areas?

No it does not stick to it, in fact it stays very clean

 

[BillN_33]

No it does not stick to it, in fact it stays very clean

Cheers

As the wings, in the usual places, on my W124 are rust free, I will give it a try

It is worth just painting it on the "surface" rust on the suspension units and areas around....or do they need rust treating first.

I have just cleaned the underneath of my old W124 and, as you know there is lots of surface rust but nothing serious..............maybe some of the smaller "brake pipes" will need replacing some day soon, but that's all

 

[Mercedes 190E]

Cheers

As the wings, in the usual places, on my W124 are rust free, I will give it a try

It is worth just painting it on the "surface" rust on the suspension units and areas around....or do they need rust treating first.

I have just cleaned the underneath of my old W124 and, as you know there is lots of surface rust but nothing serious..............maybe some of the smaller "brake pipes" will need replacing some day soon, but that's all

Only use the Waxoyl underseal on bodywork. For brake pipes, suspension etc you are better with normal clear waxoyl.

 

[philharve]

Hammerite WaxOyl?

he means the "Hammerite Waxoil with underseal" stuff not the normal hammerite paint. The underseal stuff remains very slightly tacky and therefore flexable.

i'm using this on my R107 restoration. i'm painting it on. i'm using the spray stuff for the chassis box sections and sills of the car.

Hi SilverSaloon

Surely that's not its name? Is it better known under another name?

When I had my C class's wings done the bodyshop applied a dark brown stuff that was not recognisably an underseal. It was describe to me as self-healing with WaxOyl-like properties. It's not really tacky and neither is it hard, it gives slightly under pressure. It stays 'clean' as if it repels mud and debris thrown up from the road. Is this the substance Hammerite WaxOyl you speak of? My bodyshop never gave it a name.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[SilverSaloon]

hi phil,

i dont know, this is what i'm using (the tin):

and this spray stuff for the box sections:

i guess the brown stuff the garage used is a product that is like waxoil - but not genuine stuff? i know a lot of waxoil/rust treatment application companies state that genuine waxoil is used, so i assume there is some other "similar" stuff also on the market.

Both the above products are available at Halfords but i've been told they are not the cheapest supplier.

 

[turbopete]

the aerosol in the lower pic is genuine waxoyl and the stuff in the top pic is basically underseal made by hammerite which as the tin says contains added waxoyl. its a bit like putting unerseal on then a coat of waxoyl on top. the reason for the confusion is that hammerite took over or was part of (i forget which) the company that made waxoyl (finnegans it was called if my memory is correct) but to cut a long story short, theyre both exactly the same products made by the same people. its just that finnegans is no more and hammerite is now the brand name used in its place. even the design of the tins, labelling etc is unchanged!

 

[SilverSaloon]

i put the tin in a saucepan of boiling water for 20 mins before painting it on to try to thin it out a bit.

 

[turbopete]

heating up underseal is common practise. helps it go through an underseal gun easier. theaerosol waxoyl is usually pretty thin anyhow. ive never needed to heat that up, and wouldnt advise it. however if you buy waxoyl in a 5litre tin and use the pump action spraying unit you can get for those tins, warming it up wont hurt. obviously aerosols can explode with heat.

 

[Xtractorfan]

Heating the waxoyl in hot water before applying is a good idea as it does make the product much easier to use.. One word of warning..if using compressed air, try and use the waxoyl as far away from the compressor as possible as a running compressor will suck in the waxoyl fumes and cause many problems, especially if you use the air for spraying, same applies to silicone based products..

 

[antijam]

If you do use the original waxoil for spraying into closed chassis sections - which is a very good idea - make sure you spray in enough to adequately coat the surfaces, without being too over-enthusiastic.

After replacing the sills on my old MGB a few years ago, I pumped almost a can of the stuff into each side. 'That'll thwart the rust bug' I says to myself. It did, but for the next few years a hot summer day would leave a tell-tale line of dribbles on the surface of the drive. Didn't matter too much to me as I had a gravel drive at the time - a quick rake and they'd gone - but some of my friends with clean block or tarmac drives weren't too keen on me visiting in the height of summer..... :Oops:

 

[philharve]

Just underseal, or something more?

Hi All

I visited my bodyshop today to have an estimate made for the repair to the bottoms of two doors. Fortunately it was largely surface rust and a repair will be relatively straightforward and inexpensive. I was informed to expect an estimate of around GBP300.00, maybe less.

I asked the bodyshop owner what he did to repair the wheel arches on my car which was undertaken about 2 years ago. I knew the paint was stripped by blasting the metal - I'd seen the photographs - and any atomic rust chemically treated and made inert before applying a two-part epoxy sealant. This coat seals the metal and prevents further rusting. At some point a paint layer was applied and a WaxOyl-like substance was used to cover the paint. That's that, or so I thought!

Apparently the process was more complicated. There were TWO, two-part epoxy sealants used, one on the bare, chemically treated metal, the other sealant applied on top of that. The first sealant is a proprietary compound developed by Mercedes and is 'strongly' recommended in all their chassis repair procedures. The second sealant was then applied before two coats of paint were added. On top of that lot was applied a substance with a semi-hard, waxy feel that contains WaxOyl. It has self-healing properties and a firm favourite with the bodyshop. It can remain effective for decades. My wheel arches still look as though they were repaired yesterday. They could still look the same a decade, or more, from now.

Another tip I learned is that the recommended Mercedes paint thickness on the visible chassis panels is '90' (thou'?). When repainting these surfaces the bodyshop increases the paint thickness to '130', minimum.

I saw adjacent panels' paint thicknesses being measured with a portable gauge with a digital readout. It was easy to see which panels were original spec' and which had been repainted.

Now that I know how much preparation and work goes into a professional repair I don't might shelling out my hard-earned money because I know I will have a repair that could outlast the life of the car. With the reliability of Mercedes 'mechanicals', that could be a very long time.

I joked that when all my car's body panels have been professionally repaired and repainted, the chassis will likely outlast the rest of the car.

I have read elsewhere in this forum of removing rust with emery paper, stabilizing any remaining rust with a rust inhibitor and finally repainting with a can of aerosol spray paint, but there can never be a substitute for a professional repair, if you want it to last.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[White230CE]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for that really useful post. Were you told the name of the chemical used to treat atomic rust, if so what was it please? Ditto the two sealants used?

Also, was the bodyshop kjrule as per the link in your signature?

Thanks

Ray

 

[White230CE]

Just adding my recent experience to the discussion, in case it is of use.

Took off the front wings of my 230CE to fix the rust, but that's another story.

Having taken the wings off, I undid the front nut that secures the inner plastic/rubber arch to the body. Pulled the front lip of the inner arch away to find 20 years of wet soil poulticed against the bodywork. Rust/moisture had worked inside the rubberised underseal, causing it to cleave away from the metal.

I cut back the rubber to a point where it was no longer peeling and well away from being sandwiched by the inner arch. Cleaned up, primed and painted the metal, and I'm going to spray Waxoyl over it before re-attaching the inner arch.

Looking into the engine bay, found that the area under the wash-wipe reservoir was also wet and rusted, and the rubber grommet had deteriorated. Cleaned, primed and painted. New grommet and Waxoyl next.

Next to the reservoir is a deep V-shaped channel where the chassis member runs. This was also full of wet grime, and rusting. Unbolted the plastic/rubber panel that forms the floor of it, and flushed the dirt out with a Karcher, cleaned up and treated the rust as best I could (reminded me of that line from Schindler's List about children's hands being essential for polishing the inside of a 30mm shell casing), primed and painted. Waxoyl next.

These are places I will look in if I buy another.