Help- tranny destroyed? Please advise...

[satyr]

Was driving our 87 190d with euro 4spd tranny (716.213?) home from the ac shop, and a guy pulled out into my lane (common here). I slammed on the brakes to avoid hitting him, and put in the clutch, downshifting into 2nd. When I let out the clutch, there was a weird metal to metal scraping sound, and then a clunking/clanking and banging noise that could it be felt in the gearshift lever. The gearshift also became very stiff. I immediately pulled over and looked underneath-(couldn't see much), but didn't see fluid anywhere, or anything dragging.

The noise is NOT engine-speed dependent. I revved it parked- and it did not return without driving. It IS related to the car's forward movement though. Pulling away from a stop in first it does not return until around 1800 rpm, and then the clanking, scraping and clunking kicks in. If I put in the clutch it continues. If I take it out of gear and roll forward at 10+mph in neutral, it continues. If I yell profanites.... well, you know. I can't get it to shift into 3rd or 4th, it would only move between 1st and 2nd, and the shifter is "stiff", . At the shop, I put it in reverse to move it, and had a hell of a time getting it back into 1st. It did finally go into gear after working at it.

Here's a strange thing- I went over a bump at one point while driving back to the shop, and the clunking, banging, and scraping went away for a long while-as if something that had been loose was cleared from a rotating object. It did return right before I got to the shop, but it seemed strange that the bump would have made it go away for awhile.

Does anybody know what this is?

The shop will "look at it monday" but any pointers would be appreciated. I'm hoping it's not a bad tranny, but if you guys think it is, do you know where I could get a tranny? I have the euro 4 spd gearbox, should I swap in a 5spd to the 601.911 or does anyone know where I can get a replacement?

Please email or post- any help is appreciated. I'll go ahead and post this to several forums and see what comes up. Thank you for any help you could offer- John

 

[paulcallender]

It could be a failed engine mount. I've had an engine mount fail, while driving. The clutch continues to work as normal, but the choice of gears is severely limited, because the shift mechanism is not lined up properly any more.

It depends what hit what, if the engine dropped, as to how much it would cost. On mine (it was a VW Transporter), the engine squished the fuel pump, costing approx £1000 all told, once the pump and mount were replaced by VW.

.....or you could do what banger racers do.....cut a large hole around the gearstick. This is so that if the car is twisted or the front end changes shape whilst driving it, they can still change gear!

 

[davidsl500]

Hmm, what speed did you start to select 2nd gear at?

Back in my technical clutch days in the eighties a common problem, especially with light commercial van drivers, was to "preselect" a gear on slip roads when leaving motorways or large dual carriage ways whilst still going pretty quick.

briefly, the clutch plate is clamped to the flywheel by the clutch "cover" or "pressure plate", the clutch plate is sat on the splines of the first motion shaft from the gearbox. and so as the flywheel spins the torque is transferred through the driven plate and drives the first motion shaft through the gearbox and back axle etc., .

when the clutch is disengaged the pressure plate retracts from the flywheel allowing the clutch plate to spin freely on the first motion shaft. The speed that it spins at is dependant on what gear you are in as it follows that the rear wheels are then driving the clutch plate through the gearbox.

Lets say that 6000 rpm in 2nd gear gives 40 mph, and you are doing 60mph - even though you disengage the clutch if you select 2nd at 60mph the plate will spin up to 9000rpm - and so will certain sections of the gearbox - and bang ! something will give. usually the facings will "burst" off the driven plate at about 8500rpm dependant on design and the damper springs will also exit from the driven plate hub (these springs are designed to take up rotational vibrations from the engine and having nothing to do with clutch "take up" by the way).

So it might just be a very damaged clutch but this wouldnt explain the stiffening of the gear change so I would suspect some gearbox damage to.

lt us know the outcome please !

 

[mack_fulton]

87 SEL 420 transmission won't change gears

Speaking of trannys, I have a 1987 SEL 420; the automatic transmission won't change gears above 2nd gear. I've changed the filter and gasket and filled it back up with trans fluid. Otherwise the car really runs great, it will go forward and backward with no problem, it just won't change gears once it gets going.

Any advice because I've done all that I know to do without purchasing a trans.

 

[satyr]

Mack- As for your SEL that won't shift- sounds like a hydraulic problem (valve body? Don't know benz auto trannies)- but I think that you may be in need of rebuild...


Thank you all for the replies on my w201. When the car pulled out in front of me I was doing about 30 miles per hour in 4th gear. I slammed on the brake and clutch at the same time, and my speed dropped to about 10 miles per hour. I didn't have time to downshift, but selected 2nd gear- to resume driving. It was a few seconds after driving in 2nd gear, before shifting into third that the strange sounds and vibrations came about. I'm worried that the gearbox is ruined- based on the shifting problems and odd noises, but I can't understand how braking could cause that....

 

[satyr]

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to post the outcome of my noise, vibration, and shifter problems for anyone who experiences (and searches on) these symptoms in the future (isn't that what forums like this are all about anyway?!) I'll post this everywhere I posted this issue originally to hopefully help someone out someday....

It seems that the "VIBRATION DAMPENER" of the propellershaft came loose. All of the internal rubber that had connected this heavy outer steel ring to the propeller shaft had disintegrated, and it became loose, sliding BACK of the driveshaft. It was probably happily sitting back on the propshaft, until I hit the brakes to avoid hitting the a**hole that pulled out in front of me. It then slid forward on the propshaft- clanking, banging, rubbing and interfering with the shifter linkage.

The shop was very honest, cut the offending dampener off, and called me to let me know that I did NOT need a transmission after all. What's more- they didn't charge me for staying open late for me to limp it to them in first and second gear from across town. I'll replace the dampener soon....

Thank you too all of those who contributed their thoughts and guidance on this topic. You make this forum a great resource for the rest of us! -John