Injector questions

bob 6600

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Friend of mine recently had an injector problem, diesel was spewing back up the hole (not just chuffing as you get from the seal failing). He was advised to change the injector as it was faulty (possible hairline crack). As the vehicle was off the road and he needed it asap, he agreed with the garage to fit an injector they had lying around (no charge for the part) on the basis he knew it would get him mobile but knowing it was showing a reading of +5mm^3/Hub which is right on the limit.

Now the leak has stopped and there is no chuffing but it is running rough. problem is, the injector was 'repaired' by the previous owner and has had a bolt snap at some point and a larger bolt inserted with a modified fork. The garage has told him due to previous bodge job, it was difficult to get the injector to stop leaking and after about 3 attempts they put 2 sealing washers on.

Now I have told him that this is not right as although it is not leaking, the injector is not sitting where it should be.

Vehicle is running rough and has a serious lack of power. Question is, is it likely to be the 'double seal', the +5mm or both? He is worried about it needing a new cam cover but I have driven it and it is very bad, almost dangerous. Prior to the injector, car was running ok, he just wants to know if he can get away with the same injector or not.

All comments appreciated
 

stevenN

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Bolts & forks being reworked isn't automatically the problem as long as they did a good job. My car has had larger bolts fitted as I found out when resealing an injector.
More probable is the double washer and not completing the job properly.
Cleaning the hole, reseating and using "special grease"
I have read on a forum about oversized washers being used Honda I think rather than 2 washers. Perhaps the injector is wrong too.
Could you post the location so perhaps others may be able to suggest an avenue to persue?
 

mersum1es

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double sealing is the culprit, nozzle is now in totally wrong position, fuel spray will hit edge of the nozzle hole or something like that. I've read reports this happening before.
 

Alex Crow

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double sealing is the culprit, nozzle is now in totally wrong position, fuel spray will hit edge of the nozzle hole or something like that. I've read reports this happening before.

My thoughts too as most likely.
 
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bob 6600

bob 6600

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Thanks for the replies guys. He is local to me (W mids) so Mercland is nearest Indie. I know they will do a proper job and have told him to go there but he is debating whether to get the original garage to put it right as they haven't done the job properly (foc) but I fear if they have put 2 washers on they either don't know what they are doing and have tried anything to stop it leaking.

The injector is correct - I have checked the part numbers for him.

He will be relieved that the injector will most likely be ok!
 

romi

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Why would 2 washers seal better than 1? I've had 2 in by mistake, and I couldn't get it to seal, until I put one in. I had to renew the seat before it quit leaking. I also had a stripped threads in the bolt hole. I repaired with parts from Kerb Konus in Amberg, Germany. I used one of the springs from my set of allen wrenches...they are hooked on to a ring with various size springs... as a guide for the drill bit while drilling the hole. It keeps the drill bit centered. I put the insert (Internal and external threads) in, and can use the original bolts. If he used oversized bolts, then he can use the inserts too.
 
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bob 6600

bob 6600

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Update:

Injector was infact incorrect (was for an OM648) which I'm not sure whether it should work as it looked identical. Replaced with a second hand injector and it is much better. However there is still a lack of power. It now moves off well and if you keep your foot down it's not too bad, but still not as it should be. If you move off slowly to say 50mph and then floor it, there is no power and no kickdown.

Injectors are not leaking and there is NO black smoke at all. When the codes were previously read, apart from the injector being out of tolerance, there was a EGR reading of '3' which I was told was very low. However, from what I've read, no smoke and the fact the problem is at speed rules out the EGR, or am I missing something here?
 

mersum1es

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Could be turbo related, I read a thread where was similar 'no smoke' situation, and if I recall right turbo vane control ring was jamming. Also EGR still can be faulty, if it's not closing when revs up, boost pressure is not what wanted (but now lack of smoke is odd if turbo is not overboosting).

Codes should be read with star and go through test procedures... sometimes other faults 'masks' other ones.
 
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bob 6600

bob 6600

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Could be turbo related, I read a thread where was similar 'no smoke' situation, and if I recall right turbo vane control ring was jamming. Also EGR still can be faulty, if it's not closing when revs up, boost pressure is not what wanted (but now lack of smoke is odd if turbo is not overboosting).

Codes should be read with star and go through test procedures... sometimes other faults 'masks' other ones.

Thanks. Codes were previously read and cleared and like I said the only ones there were the injector out of tolerance which is now sorted and the EGR showing a value of '3', but I was told this was way off.

Definitely the best it has been for a long time regarding smoke (or shall I say lack of!) Will get him up to Mercland to get the codes read and see what is left!
 
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bob 6600

bob 6600

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I am also thinking it is probably a good idea to get the EGR off and give it a clean, with all the misfueling due to faulty and/or incorrect injectors, the black smoke that was being generated must have clogged it up
 

Alex Crow

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EGR valve is a common failure on the 613 engine, but the EGR deletion mod works really well as a cheap fix.
 
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bob 6600

bob 6600

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EGR valve is a common failure on the 613 engine, but the EGR deletion mod works really well as a cheap fix.

Thanks Alex. I just drove it again and it seems like the turbo is not kicking in, or is intermittant. I was thinking the EGR mod would be a good idea as I can rule it out if it doesn't cure the problem
 

romi

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Hi, my 320 CDI had the same symptoms, ended up being the Air mass sensor.
Also, if your injector was leaking for a while, the injector seat was probably damaged (by the partially burned diesel fuel) and should be resurfaced. They sell the tool on the internet.
 

romi

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If the air mass sensor is faulty, your car will run in "safe mode", no passing gear, no acceleration, etc.
 
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bob 6600

bob 6600

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The MAF was checked on STAR and was said to be operating fine. It was changed for a genuine one less than 2 years ago....should it develop a fault so quick?

The seat looked particularly clean and not pitted. The engine itself is really smooth minus the lack of power. If seat is/was damamaged, a, I right in thinking it should be leaking? Going to have a look at some of the above options today.
 
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tony jr

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Might be worth checking the small rubber connections on all of the plastic vacumn lines. I once had one with a small crack that leaked slightly putting the car into limp mode! I cut half an inch off the connector remade the seal and all was well again. Just thought about the possibility disturbing these connections when the injectors were changed.
 
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bob 6600

bob 6600

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Another update....

Took the air box off to check the filter and all was fine. Checked all the pipes near the turbo with engine running and seemed ok. Put it all back together and took it for a spin as had to go out.

Car now flies!! Well, compared to before it does. It kicks down virtually everytime I floor it, hardly any smoke either. Will test it a bit more later and it may not last but am happy for now!

Wonder if the MAF sensor was loose or the small pipe near the turbo (the one with the sensor on it), neither seemed to be out of place though
 

romi

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When I check if an injector washer is leaking, I use my compressor and blow air down around the injector. If it's leaking, the air will blow out some liquid or vapor from around it. Some claim soapy water poured into the space around the injector will produce bubbles if the injector is leaking. But it sounds like you've fixed the problem.
 
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bob 6600

bob 6600

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I am thinking of giving the EGR a clean on mine....is it simply 3 bolts and off it comes?
 

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