Is buying petrol 3.0L W164 too risky?

[RockDriver]

I live in central London, so I need something ULEZ-friendly, hence petrol, because they just hate diesels now and charge extra for everything. My use cases are:
* Local/national trips few times a month.
* Driving across the continental Europe few times a year, ~1300 miles one way.
I've been looking at the ML350 and I am aware of the balance shaft defect.
So my question is - how risky is it to buy this car with mileage of 100 000 miles and more? Is there a high chance that by this point the balance shaft would have failed and repaired, if so the risk is low? Or it hasn't failed and could do so any moment? At this price point if the balance shaft fails on you this car is basically a write off due to the astronomic repair cost, right?

 

[Blobcat]

Hello and welcome,

I have a M272 engine and no balance shift issues at ~120K miles. Check the details on the below website, service it regularly and no issues.

Mercedes Benz balance shaft engine issues. How to check by VIN. M272/273 – MB Medic

www.mercedesmedic.com

 

[RockDriver]

Hello and welcome,

I have a M272 engine and no balance shift issues at ~120K miles. Check the details on the below website, service it regularly and no issues.

Mercedes Benz balance shaft engine issues. How to check by VIN. M272/273 – MB Medic

www.mercedesmedic.com

Thanks for the link. It looks like only a number of early M272 engines were affected by this defect and it was fixed in later batches. So checking this before buying is crucial.

 

[RockDriver]

Hello and welcome,

I have a M272 engine and no balance shift issues at ~120K miles. Check the details on the below website, service it regularly and no issues.

Mercedes Benz balance shaft engine issues. How to check by VIN. M272/273 – MB Medic

www.mercedesmedic.com

I've just checked the engine number of a particular car I was looking at and it's below the number (also noted on the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M272_engine#Balance_shaft_gear_and_other_issues) when the defect was fixed. So it means it's affected.

Curious thing is that the dealer selling the car is offering "optional" 6 to 36 months warranty, whatever that means. I wonder if that actually means the balance shaft was replaced and there's evidence of that in the log book.

 

[Blobcat]

I've just checked the engine number of a particular car I was looking at and it's below the number (also noted on the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M272_engine#Balance_shaft_gear_and_other_issues) when the defect was fixed. So it means it's affected.

Curious thing is that the dealer selling the car is offering "optional" 6 to 36 months warranty, whatever that means. I wonder if that actually means the balance shaft was replaced and there's evidence of that in the log book.

Warranty won’t be worth the paper it is written on.

Depending upon mileage it could already have been repaired. If low miles - doubtful

 

[RockDriver]

Warranty won’t be worth the paper it is written on.

Depending upon mileage it could already have been repaired. If low miles - doubtful

Interesting. I thought that a situation like this, as in, catastrophic failure of engine would be covered by the Consumer Act 2015 (https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights) for at least 6 months?

 

[Blobcat]

Consumer right’s definitely, warranty not a thing

Most dealers try and hide from the consumer rights with the warranty though.

 

[curious]

Interesting. I thought that a situation like this, as in, catastrophic failure of engine would be covered by the Consumer Act 2015 (https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights) for at least 6 months?

... and thereafter since it's a known problem that would have been there at time of purchase if not already fixed!

 

[RockDriver]

... and thereafter since it's a known problem that would have been there at time of purchase if not already fixed!

It does make sense. My main concern though is catastrophic breakdown somewhere in the middle of Europe. I doubt even Consumer Rights cover towing the car all the way back to UK. So the way I see it before I buy I'd have to see some evidence that the balance shaft has been fixed in the past. Something like that should be in the log book, right?

 

[Mr Greedy]

Yes. If there is no receipt! or not on Mercedes DSB, then you might want to price an offer accordingly and get it done on purchase

 

[horatio]

A quick search of the interwebs will find you the engine numbers affected. I believe the engine light can be switched off with a scan tool to temporarily hide the warning signs.

The ULEZ will be inevitably be expanded to include more brackets of cars before long - once those cameras cover all of London and Khan gets in again it’s all downhill from there. An EU4 petrol with a high CO2 figure is a sitting duck!

 

[Conor]

Hi Op,

How many miles exactly can you see yourself doing each year... and how many trips in London would you make a month?

Have you considered a petrol V8?

To be honest, if you are driving across Europe a few times a year I think it's a really bad idea to buy something you semi-expect / are waiting to break.

You will be super stressed any time the engine light comes on.. and if you end up stranded on the side of road 1000 miles from home you are going to have a really hard time, in general.

--
Devils Advocate: Unless you are going to daily the car around London would it not potentially be better to get a diesel and suck up the ULEZ charge. Considering the amount of mileage you plan on doing, the differential between petrol / diesel costs would mitigate any ULEZ costs.. It's probably a case of running the numbers I guess.

 

[RockDriver]

The ULEZ will be inevitably be expanded to include more brackets of cars before long - once those cameras cover all of London and Khan gets in again it’s all downhill from there. An EU4 petrol with a high CO2 figure is a sitting duck!

Of course, that's one of the main reasons I don't wanna spend five figures on a car when it's value will inevitably crash within a few years.

 

[RockDriver]

Have you considered a petrol V8?

Indeed I have, but there are no petrol V8 W164s in under 10K price range. Long time ago I used to have the V8 W163 and it was my favorite car.

To be honest, if you are driving across Europe a few times a year I think it's a really bad idea to buy something you semi-expect / are waiting to break.

You will be super stressed any time the engine light comes on.. and if you end up stranded on the side of road 1000 miles from home you are going to have a really hard time, in general.

That's the main reason for this thread - to determine just how big of a risk it is. From what I understand so far, if the balance shaft has been fixed in the past - the engine is otherwise quite reliable. I've been browsing around and the general consensus seems to be that absolute majority of affected M272 engines by now will be either fixed or scrapped.

Devils Advocate: Unless you are going to daily the car around London would it not potentially be better to get a diesel and suck up the ULEZ charge. Considering the amount of mileage you plan on doing, the differential between petrol / diesel costs would mitigate any ULEZ costs.. It's probably a case of running the numbers I guess.

That's what I've considered originally. On second hand market for every 1 petrol there's like 20 diesels. But it's not just the ULEZ charge - road tax and residential parking permits are more expensive for diesels and who knows what they will come up with tomorrow. It's like I said - London has declared war on diesels. Frankly there's the deterring psychological aspect of knowing that every day I drive somewhere ULEZ will be charging me.

I'm not sure to be honest, at this point I haven't fully ruled a diesel. Maybe it's outdated thinking, but I always believed that in general diesel engines are more prone to breaking than petrol and absolute majority of cars I've owned were petrol, so that's what I'm familiar with.

 

[horatio]

Lexus RX300/350!

 

[RockDriver]

Lexus RX300/350!

To me Lexus, especially the SUVs are just very ugly. Even more ugly than Volvo XC90 and that's saying something. Every time I look at a RX450H the only though in my head is "WTF were they thinking?".

 

[horatio]

Yeah the newer Lexiii look like something that hatches out of a pod in an alien film. I was thinking more the inoffensive looking mid noughties models.

They are very well built, super comfy and the drivetrains are indestructible. You could buy a decent example for well under £5k, put £1500 or so into maintenance and have a car you don’t think twice about driving across Europe with.