Is the right MB out there?

[911-no-substitutes]

Hello, I am a newbie too to this forum too. Looking for a used reliable older Merc for regular use. Have had one of these in the past and was very pleased. I understand the importance of regular service by trusted Indie, parts from the dealer etc. I have read past threads for several hours, I am very surprised by what I read, and my reading has raised several questions. Please point me to the thread if these have been answered before and somehow I've missed the thread in my searches

1. In the mid 1990s I took test drives in the C class (they drove like VW Jettas), C class (they drove like a... Buick) and the S class, which drove like an MB should, and bought a mid 1980s S class. Is this generalisation the same wrt driving feel with late 1990s and early 2000 classes?

2. I understand class, engine size and and year, eg. 2002 S320 CDi or 1998 C 250 TD classic. I do not understand the Wxxx, or 202, 211 etc. designations (I think my 1984 380 SE was a W124 but can't remember exactly). Is there a list of what these latter number designations mean somewhere?

3. I thought all Stuttgard technology (Porsche and MB) were galvanized post about 1976. It seems MB forgot (err.... went cheap) to galvanize late 1990s (is it 1998?) to mid 2000 (2004?). Is this all classes? What years of what classes of MB have galvanized bodies and body panels? If I want an older C, E or S, what years should I restrict to avoid corrosion problems? (My 1987 911 does not show any rust anywhere! I want an MB with the same. I do not want to beg MB dealers to solve corrosion problems that shouldn't be there in the first place!)

4. It seems pre 1998 diesels were reliable, but CDi technology has some teething problems related to combnination of high fuel pressure and electronic injection (think that at 3,000 rpm combustion occurs 25 times a second, which means solenoids must operate in miliseconds at megapressures...). Given a 2005+ S320 CDi is out of my budget, should I stick to pre 1998 C and E diesels? (corrosion again?).

5. MB without leather? It seems unthinkable, but it is true. Is it correct to say C class is cloth, E class has leather in some models - search to find one with leather, S is leather in most (all?) models?

6. Fuel consumption, say in MPG: is thre a list for MB diesel models from 1990s onwards somewhere?

7. List of Indie MB mechanics within 1 hour of East London? (I will have to drop it off and return by public transport). Alternatively in Southeast England, say near Hythe?

It is beginning to look like a reliable diesel MB is either too old, no leather, drives like a Jetta and past the 150k miles; or way out of my budget ;-(

Thanks in advance

 

[Blobcat]

Hi & Welcome,

I've moved this out to it's own thread so it gets a better chance of reply.

 

[jberks]

mmmm
1) I don't agree. Sure the C didn't drive like an S but it still felt every bit a merc. The newer ones do feel a bit different so I'd drive them to see what you like.

2) I can't remember what the '80s S was but the 90's C was a W202, bug eyed E 210 current E 211 , last S 220 , current 221 etc. W for wagon (saloon) and S for estate. The 124 was the early 90's E class with the square headlights.

3) they started again 2002-2003

4) No real problems with any of the cdis.

5) I've had a few mercs with cloth seats and they tend to last better than leather. They don't crease, crack or sag like leather does. There is a lot of unjustifyable snobbery around having leather seats IMO. I've got leather now and it's fine but cloth has benefits too.

6) Not one I've seen. You normally find there isn't a vast difference between models anyway. Mercs are heavy so often a bigger engine is more economical than a small one.

7) I try to avoid the SE like the plague so can't help you. Some good ones up he in beautiful rural Yorkshire though

Finally can't comment as I don't know your budget. There is normally something nice for every pocket though, if you look hard enough.

 

[BlackC55]

140 S Class S500 upto 1998. Cheap to buy and a fantastic machine.

 

[911-no-substitutes]

Blobcat - thank you for moving the post

jberks - thanks for the numbers rundown! There may be differences in USA and EU suspension settings that cause differences. The US C and E classes definately drove as I described, will check what they do this side of the pond. If MB restarted galvanizing 2002-03, when did they stop? Regarding leather vs. cloth, I prefer the former as it's easier to clean what "inconsiderate family members" may spill on the seats. Agree wrt weight and fuel consumption. I read about early CDi-electronic problems in webpages, have no experience of my own.

BlackC55 - I had seen your posts elsewhere and had checked before your reply. Via M25 south side, you are about 140 miles and 2.5 hours away from the Hythe area (unfortunately). I agree the pre 1998 S class is a fantastic buy, but petrol. I will have to drive some distances in the MB, hence fuel consumption is a consideration. There may be different engine sizes for US and EU markets. I recall 1980-90s SE 380, 420, 480, 500 (and 600?)

Thanks again!

 

[911-no-substitutes]

Hello there, one more question. If they re-started galvanizing body structures and panels in 2002-03, when did they stop? 1997 or earlier?

 

[jibcl500]

140 S Class S500 upto 1998. Cheap to buy and a fantastic machine.

Agreed possibly the best mercedes for drive, w124 e class a very very very very close 2nd.

jib

 

[jibcl500]

oh and anything else feels like a Vectra.

jib

 

[Bolide]

Just buy a really, really nice W124 and enjoy it

They're not galvanised but they still young enough for rust not to have taken hold. Waxoyl them thoroughly once then top them up once a year

Running costs are low and parts & consumables are surprisingly low

If you like something with a bit of zip buy a 280 or a 320 (a 280 would be better if you drive into London as it's sub-3 litre) and, if you're not bothered about acceleration, buy an E300 Diesel

Round it off with cheap classic car insurance, a good immobiliser and a nice stereo...

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[BeeJay]

911-No-Substitutes - look at my post today http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=29183&page=4 which gives you my experience of running a S-280, 1998 on LPG in order to keep my costs down

Good luck with your purchase, this is my first MB and I am not going back to any other make.

 

[bertroex]

interesting number of questions from a fellow porsche driver....

Like yourself, I chopped in lease cars and what not for a reliable mercedes.

1. It depends on the condition of the suspension, (shock absorbers, bushes etc) and the make and condition of tyres. Mercedes themselves advice continental and Uniroyal, I run them on Michelins. Each mercedes type should give a good level of comfort but it isnt a "typical drivers" car as for example a bmw. The typical difference would be the sneeze factor: sneeze and with both hands on the wheel you are still going straight ahead. Do that with the bmw and you are in the guardrail.

2. W is Wagen (Saloon) C is coupe or convertible and S is Stationwagen, number is typically engine size e.g. a 420 is typically a 4200cc

123: 200 until 280 series from '77 til '85 ish
124: 200 until 500 series mid range from 85 till 96, became E class in 94
210: E class 200 til 55 (AMG sports models only have XX instead of XXX behind the model), from 96 until 2003
211: E class from 2003 -

S class;
126: 280 till 560, 81-91?
140: 280 till 600, 91- 99
220: 280 till 55, 99-2007
221: current S class

the w201 was the 190 baby benz, manufactued 1983-1993 with engines from 1800 cc till2600cc, which was substituted with the C class, standing for "compact"
W202: 1993-2001, the C180 till c43AMG
w203: 2001-2007,
w204: present C class


3. Porsche was the first worldwide manufacturer who introduced hot dip zinc galvanising from august 75 (MY 76). Mercedes followed MMMMMMMMMMMMMMuch later. Your 3.2 carrera will rust- its just that it will rust slower then if it wasn't galvanised. a good search on the forum will indicate that mercedes with the E210 E class from 96 onward had quality problems with rust at e.g. the boot lock etc etc from a very early age, whilst the predecessor w124 started to rust mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmuch later.


4. No info on CDI here.

5. Unthinkable re: mercedes sans leather?! HA! the only thing you got for free from Mercedes, traditionally, was the option list. efore the introduction of "packaged- from-factory" mercedes types (packages were introduced with the C of 1993: ie avantgarge, sport, elegance etc) you would have find a 280SE in white with an absolute poverty spec. In the generation of my grandparents, you'd go for "sensible" options. A sunroof. A drivers head rest. central locking. but still, say, dark blue NON metallic etc. Tinted windows? Waste of money. Alloys? We never drive fast to justify the lightness and they are difficult to keep clean. Leather? too sticky: if spending money better go for the Pullman velour. armrest? so difficult to use the cubbyhole. :LOL:


6. Fuel consumption, say in MPG: is thre a list for MB diesel models from 1990s onwards somewhere? German website somewhere, was posted on this forum IIRC

7. no info

I had a E270CDI and, following my grandparents passing away, drove their W126 420 SEL and W124 250 diesel, as these cars had a certain emotional attachment. I sold the 420 with the house in France- that was a really really good useable daily driver- reliable, relaxed, wafting, had a certain charm and it was -unusually- well specced. If consumption is an issue, -I did btw 11.6 and 14 l/100km- consider LPG.

The 250 was a sewing machine of a thing: great chassis, good brakes, good roadholding but it took a long time to wind it up to speed. I learned to take roundabouts flat out and darent braking as it was so embarrasingly slow in acceleration- (with is whole 90 bhp and automatic). 10l/100km when not sparing it. A petrol version of that age makes much more sense. There was a 300D but its also slow and the 300Diesel turbo often had turbo issues and were driven like a petrol- hence tired. Common sense suggest that the 300D multivalve engine is a gem but its not a screamer. AND THEY CONSUME a surprising amount of DIESEL, which is a consideration to make with the differences in prices of petrol/diesel.
I have both a 1990 230Te and a 300TE-24: the 300 is a gem of an engine which comes on cam at 5500rpm all the way till 7200 rpm. the 230 is a good daily (holiday home) workhorse: reliable, not that refined, does the job, 10l/100 km.


HTH,


Bert

 

[Bolide]

The 250 was a sewing machine of a thing: great chassis, good brakes, good roadholding but it took a long time to wind it up to speed. I learned to take roundabouts flat out and darent braking as it was so embarrasingly slow in acceleration- (with is whole 90 bhp and automatic). 10l/100km when not sparing it

I ran a 250TD for 11 years (and still own it) and think it's probably the best W124 ever built - so probably one of the best Mercedes ever built

The 250 is a little outclassed in modern traffic but a 300 Diesel (non-turbo in the UK) keeps up well and is virtually as economical

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[FizzyFarmer]

hi
i love these older mercs. the w126 and w124 are brilliant and yo can pick up a great one for pretty good money. I have an old w108 but moved to a w124 260e which was perfec belnd of comfort and economy/power however once you have had a w126 you move up a class! they are fantastic easy to fix especially th 300se for the V8s get more expensive to fix if they go wrong. if you get a good well looked after one they will last for years. i always buy around the 100-150k mileage where they havent reall warmed up and you get classic insurance. they are great to drive and very luxurious. i always buy through mercseller which can be a bit more expensive but richard really knows his stuff and normally he has seen alot of the cars on the site. good luck

 

[deejaybee]

Hi,
I have run a '95 E280 estate, a '93 220TE and currently have just bought a '97 w210 E320 estate, I also run a '98 CL420.

I also came to the conclusion that there is a rapidly diminishing supply of decent W124 estates out there which is why i bout the W210. It was cheap (1950) and didn't have too many miles (94500). Realistically I don't think a 10 year old W210 can be expected to be run economically for another 10 years until it is 20 years old, but if you buy wisely and accept running one for say 2-4 years with depreciation of 500-1000 per year it may work out about the same as anything else.

The problem with W124s is finding a really good one other than at the specialst dealers. In one sense even at 6000-8000 these could still be regarded as ''good value'' for the standard that they represent, but even so by buying at top rate dealer prices and then probably selling privately the depreciation will be significant. Also, in my experience they are not that cheap to run if you want to keep them in tip-top condition, especially at higher mileage. My suggestion would be to buy a cheap one out of the classifieds for 1000-2000 and do most of the routine servicing yourself and you will probably have a useable car for quite a few years. If you do buy one in immacualte condition and you want to keep it that way with regular use you should budget at least 1000 per year on upkeep and maintenance.

As regards fuel economy, the W210 did a round trip from london to Huddersfield last weekend at an average of 27mpg - just over 400 miles, about 330 on motor way, 40 miles in London, 40 miles on A roads. This was at a reasonable pace on the motorway (+/- 80) most of the time and fully loaded coming back. With just one person in the car at say 10mph slower you could probably get over 30, but in town I am expecting it to drop to about 20mpg with careful use.

As regards the S-class, although the difference to a good e-class may be subtle, as a motorway cruiser it is much more relaxed, mainly due to being even quiter with the double glazed side windows and lower engine revs. I have never been in one of the 320 diesels so dont know how diffrent this is to a petrol. Unfortunately everything comes at a price and the running costs for an S-class are almost certainly going to be more than an e-class if you intend to keep it for a long time.

Anyway, good luck with your deliberations, and it cant be that bad having to decide wether to buy an S-class or an E-class!!

Dave