I've bought a pup....mostly (260E) - Nice 260E, shame about

[G4VSQ]

Well I went and did it, I bought my first M-B, an "F" reg (1988) 260E with 147, 000 miles on it and (supposedly) a "FSH". The "FSH" is mostly there, though the odd bit is missing, and of course it doesn't go beyond 135, 000 miles. So the new car already needs a BIG service.

It's in almost perfect condition bodywise-no serious rust anywhere (I found one isolated blister) and it's finished in smoke silver with a brown interior, with rear headrests that you can drop and an electrically adjustable steering column. It drives really nicely, no clonks, bangs, whines, it doesn't run hot. It needs new front dampers, OK. It looks wonderful.

BUT...

It's breathing heavily...there is oil in the air filter. The inside of the rocker box is blackish and fumey as well....the oil is black (well I did say it needs a service!). However, it seems to run very well, except it's a bit lumpy at tickover, which is only at 600 rpm at the moment! I have just driven it back from Wales, about 130 miles and it didn't lack performance. The engine is failry quiet, certainly no rattles or knocks. The is no blue smoke when I rev the engine and look at the exhaust. There is no blue smoke when accelerating or on the over-run. The inside of the exhaust pipes are a little sooty but not oily.

It has had problems in the past (looking at the service history) of high CO readings, causing it to fail the MoT twice. These were readjusted, and it passed. It passed an MoT back in late April and has only done a few miles since then, so I guess the Hydrocarbons were less than 1200!

So, I'm hanging my head in shame and thinking why the H*** did I forget to check if it was fuming and breathing. I was seduced by the good condition of the bodywork (and most of the rest of it)...please someone tell me, there is hope for it! (I do intend to kep it and sort it out-first step will be a service in the Birmingham area, from what I read and hear, it will be done properly there.)

Regards,
Al in Reading, who really should know better.

 

[dave elcome]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Al.

Don't do yourself or the car down, at least now your are driving the marque.

So its using a bit of oil, big deal!! would any of Henry's finest still be in as good a condition at the same mileage? not to mention those things that eminate from Luton.

If the vehicle is as good, and drives  as well as you say, then if the engine needs a little TLC so what, sounds to me like a good buy, and i'm sure you've already worked out for yourself, that a trip to Andy will not only get you a service, but an honest assement of the vehicle, and more importantly, an honest quote for any further work that may be required.

Good luck, and enjoy your Mercedes

 

[Richard Moakes]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

I doubt you have bought a pup, it just needs some TLC.

The breathing could be a number of things, first of all would be a compression test, wet and dry, and if you have the equipment a leakdown test would be even better.

It is probably valve stem seals, does it smoke when you start it in the morning?

Sounds like it might have some sort of injection issue with mixture control, that kind of work is best left to an expert such as Andy, or any real Bosch expert who is familiar with mechnical K (KE) injection, which can often be hard to find. (too many component swappers, and not enough problem solvers!)

As for the slightly lumpy idle, well I have that problem, and apparently so do most M103 (12V 6cyl) engine owners, so at the moment I am making sure that everything is ok with the usual suspects, ignition system, fuel filter etc..., before taking it and handing over money to someone.

Best of luck with the car Al, you have bought a fine piece of engineering which is in better condition at 14 years old than most Vauxhalls at 5 years old.

Cheers,

Richard (G1MWI)

 

[G4VSQ]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Well thank you both for doing the most important thing-encouraging me when I was a little down!

I quite agree, any other car would be in pieces at this age and mileage! The car really is beautiful, it even has the original deep pile floor mats front and rear in place, the headlining is unmarked as is 98% of the interior. I'll try to make a photo available soon, when I get round to it.

I'm hoping the problem MAY be valve stem seals, as I believe these could be changed with the head in situ nad are a known problem area.

I'm not actually seeing ANY smoke from the exhaust at all, nor does it smell oily, but I cleaned a fair amount of oil and old carbon out of the air cleaner.

I'll be contacting Andy soon to arrange a service and to work out what to do next. It IS a lovely car and I want to keep it for a very long time!

The best experience I had today was when I was dfribving it near home. I came to a stop, and then a small boy on his bike shot past me, shouting as he did "nice car, mister!!" with a large smile on his face. I agreed...

Cheers to you, Al

 

[Andy Welburn]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

I've had a 19E 2.6 for about a year now. When I first got it I noticed a bit of oil on top of the air filter, so I cleaned it up and it just keeps on coming back! It's not obvious where it's coming from, it only uses about a litre or so of oil every 10,000 Kms so I'm not too worried about it.

Have you considered conversion to LPG? Mine is run on LPG most of the time, the oil stays very clean and the emissions are nice and low. You can buy my car for the cost of getting my next Merc (a 300CE-24) if you want?

 

[Andy Welburn]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Ref the above posting, it should read " you can buy my car for the cost of getting my next one LPG conveted". Approximately £1800.

 

[Andy]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Hi all,

Sooner or later you will regret putting fitting LPG to your vehicle. Especially with the 24v.

Regards

Andy @ mercedesservicing.com

 

[simon]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Interesting statement Andy.What is the logic/experience behind that?
regards
Ernest.

 

[Andy Welburn]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Hello Andy

You've really intruiged me with the statement about regretting fitting LPG. Why would I regret halving my running costs? I accept many older LPG systems can cause problems such as poor performance, throttle response and backfiring through the inlet tract, but I can't see these problems occurring with a modern sequential injection kit which is what I was intending to fit to the 24 valve. Please reply.

Regards

Andy W.

 

[G4VSQ]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Chaps, could you please take the LPG debate to a separate thread? I don't mean to be rude and please don't be offended but it's sort of hijacking my original posting, and as a new person I'd like to concentrate on the replies to my question, especially as I still feel rather daft!

Thanks a lot,
Al

 

[sunil sood]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

g4vsq and andy,

just wondered ,is your car running hot-ie in traffic or idling-the reason i ask is my merc190e was using more oil than usual as it was running hot-so i replaced the cooling fan switch-and i feel engine oil consumption has reduced as it is operating at normal temperature now.

also if the oil has been overtopped, you are likely to get oil in the breather hose and air cleaner system-it would be worth checking the oil dipstick to exclude this simple fact.

also ,is there not supposed to be a small amount of oil which ends up in the crankcase ventilation system as the temperature within the combustion chambers vaporises oil during combustion ie normal engine blowby gases.?

 

[jackd]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Congratilation. I wish you many years of enjoyement with your 260.
I have owned a 260E  (1989) since 1994. I bought the car with 42,000Km. on it. It now has only 314,000Km. It is still solid, pleasant to drive and still looks like a new car (almost) with no rust, shinny/brilliant paint (still original) and a clean interior.
That engine is nearly bulletproof. True, they tend to like the taste of motor oil and sometimes leaks a little.
If you car uses some oil, start with the valve steam seals. They are cheap and easy to replace. This should significantly reduce the oil consumption. If it does not solve the problem to your satisfaction, you will need to replace the valve guides, which is a more complex job. I had it done at 220,000Km. One very important issue with this car is to strictly adhere to the maintenance schedule. Frequent oil changes (engine, transmission, differential) are a must for longevity.
You will probably encounter some other problems (after all, it is a 13 years old car) but it is part of the fun (?) of owning this car. Good luck. Need any more info, i'll be please to answer.
JackD

 

[simon]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

G4VSQ. Sadly posters cannot control the replies that develop on any forum.
That is one reason they are designated threads.
If you care to examine archives you will soon realise that is the norm rather than the exception.
Ernest Sidesman

 

[simon]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

G4VSQ. Sadly posters cannot control the replies that develop on any forum.
That is one reason they are designated threads.
If you care to examine archives you will soon realise that is the norm rather than the exception.
Ernest Sidesman

 

[fuzzer]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

The continuing conversation is what makes this forum so good , its like being in a chatroom with a delay. If somone posts within your thread , its because they feel it relevent to your original post.

 

[13022]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

When I bought my 190E I was less than impressed to discover an AA report from 3 years before which described the car as 'more than well used'! In addition I noticed a few rattles and clunks that had me worried. However that was 4 years  and 64,000 miles ago and I now know that the car *likes* to make a few extra noises! She has recently spent time with Mr Gayle to help ween her off her oil addiction (they really are mad for the stuff these MBs!), and a few other jobs too. But buying her certainly wasn't the mistake I thought it was in those early days. I suspect that at the end of the day if an MB is solid enough you can justify a bit of attention to the engine as part of  the overall running costs. ...Good Luck Al!

 

[Andy]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Hi all,

I try and make this quick. It is my experience & my good fortune in some cases (and missfortune for the customer) That fitting LPG to the 24vengines invariably has adverse consequences. Usually when LPG is fitted to the vehicle the vehicle quickly becomes unreliable. An inordinate amount of money is then spent trying to rectify the problem. Which in my humble opinion out ways the cost savings. Or you have to rejig the figures so that you recoup the cost and savings over a longer time period. The 102engines as fitted to 190 &124's seem to be better. But they start blowing breather pipes off and thereby braking down. Usually people start fitting LPG to the older vehicles thinking they will save fuel. When in a large amount of cases the engine is breathing so heavily (noted by heavy amounts of oil in the airfilter housing)that the fuel consumption is never going to be great because of the enigine. If you don't know which pipe its blown off. Then the vehicle is going nowhere!The later 24v engines is my opinion hate LPG (280 &320) and the adverse reactions are very much more expensive. As I have said before ignore at your peril.

As for high engine oil consumption in hot conditions. I would say that there may be increased consumption. BUT, if you are using a semi syn or fully synthetic oil, especially on a older vehicle thats got rock hard valve stems seals, or worn out valve guides. Then increased oil consumption is inevetiable. Most people will not notice it why travelling around town. On long journeys thats when they will almost certain will notice (again take head all 280e/280se owners out there with the 110 engine. Biggest cause of engine failure).

Again for all reading this. Every merc engine runs at 90degrees Centigrade. If everyting is working as it should. It will move to a touch over the 100 in hot traffic then come back down to the 80-90 area. No exceptions. If it only gets to 40or so. It requires attention. If it gets to 120 it needs  attention. Again I repeat there are no exceptions.

Finally to finish off. Hi Ernest long time no speak.


Hope this has been of some help.

Regards

Andy @ www.mercedesservicing.com


PS. Just as an aside. Remember if you are buying. 89 onwards for four cylinder vehicles are the ones to buy. The  260/300e engines before this are ok. Suffer from worn valve guides though. They were supposed to be replaced under warranty years ago. But theres a lot slip through the net. (No you won't get warranty now!!!!!!) All 89 vehicles onwards have better bodies. IE less rust.

 

[Andy Welburn]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Al

OK, sorry about that! Just a bit more info for you though, ref the 2.6 engine. I've had a strange problem with mine. It would start easily and run well when cold, but then mis-fire and/or stall when warmed up to about 80 or 90 degrees. This would last for about 10 to 15 minutes, then clear and run smoothly again. The cure? A new distributor cap, rotor arm and HT leads. It now runs beautifully. Enjoy your "new" car!

Regards

Andy W.

 

[G4VSQ]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Thanks to all of you who have posted-I'm already learning a LOT! Here's an update on the car after a few days ownership:

I've joined the MB Owner's Club and bought a Brookland's manual (rather sketchy in parts, I think I'll buy the Haynes manual for the better pictures and it even tells you how to remove the door panels!) I'm not afraid of working on cars up to a point but the complexity of some of the 260E is probably too much for me.

It looks like my 260E has either worn valve guides or hardened/brittle valve stem seals. It doesn't seem to use much oil, but I'm a gentle driver. Fortunately, it achieves a running temperature of 80 degrees most of the time, increasing a bit in traffic. The brakes could be better, the exhaust has a slight leak, the downpipes are scaley and knackered...but otherwise, it's great. A big service is definitely what it needs now but I may replace the brakepads and discs myself, and sort the exhaust out locally, as it detracts from the "ambience" of such a nice car.

The near side front window is also not working. It's taking current, as the interior lights dim slightly when the switch is pressed, but nothing else happens! It COULD be that the window is jammed in the channel, but I expect the mechanism that moves the window is seized. More work...

Cheers,
Al

 

[G4VSQ]

I've bought a pup....mostly (260E)

Thanks to all of you who have posted-I'm already learning a LOT! Here's an update on the car after a few days ownership:

I've joined the MB Owner's Club and bought a Brookland's manual (rather sketchy in parts, I think I'll buy the Haynes manual for the better pictures and it even tells you how to remove the door panels!) I'm not afraid of working on cars up to a point but the complexity of some of the 260E is probably too much for me.

It looks like my 260E has either worn valve guides or hardened/brittle valve stem seals. It doesn't seem to use much oil, but I'm a gentle driver. Fortunately, it achieves a running temperature of 80 degrees most of the time, increasing a bit in traffic. The brakes could be better, the exhaust has a slight leak, the downpipes are scaley and knackered...but otherwise, it's great. A big service is definitely what it needs now but I may replace the brakepads and discs myself, and sort the exhaust out locally, as it detracts from the "ambience" of such a nice car.

The near side front window is also not working. It's taking current, as the interior lights dim slightly when the switch is pressed, but nothing else happens! It COULD be that the window is jammed in the channel, but I expect the mechanism that moves the window is seized. More work...

Cheers,
Al