Just how Bad are Mercs - Seriously?!

[Neil Plumridge]

This is a serious question. I know there are a lot of negative posts on this and other forums but as I have said in posts elswhere, a lot of people only ever post things or write reports when they have a complaint and not so often when they have something good to say or when things are just "ticking along nicely".

I ask the question because I am pondering an MB extended warrantee and all the negative reviews are pushing me towards shelling-out £85 p/m "just to be on the safe side", but what are peoples genuine experiences of Mercs over a period of a couple of years. I'm thinking specifically newer cars. I know there are a lot of you with classic cars and I know these is some debate over "older is better" but that's not what I am after. I don't want to compare the build quality of a 190E with a new C-Class I just want to know it the newer cars really are seriously unreliable or if they are about as reliable as any other car.

I have a 2003 C240 Avantgarde SE and so far a couple of things have gone wrong in the 6-8 weeks that I have owned it but they have been taken care of by the warantee from the garage I bought it from. I'm just curious to know from the experience of others if I can genuinely expect it to go wrong every other week or if I can expect it to be as reliable as any other car. Some times your just get unlucky.

 

[psmart]

Hi Neil,

I have an ML, bought from new, 12.2000. Most reliable car Ive ever owned. Problems, since new:
1. Passenger side window froze, because I used it every day in German car parks, Merc replaced the window, motor, wiring and switch gear. 4 years later, still using it in German car parks, no problems.
2. Brakes - Ive gone through 3 sets of pads and am just about to replace the complete disk/pad set - why? because I drive regularly on German autobahns at speeds in excess of 100mph and have to brake very hard due to inconsiderate drivers.
3. Tyres - 2 have worn out, 1 damaged due to ice, 1 of the originals still going strong at 46K when I had to replace all 4 with winter tyres due to an Austrian MOT.
4. Rear washer fluid pump - due to the temperatures my ML operates at (upto -40'c), it froze and the plastic broke, because I was negligent in not ensuring sufficient strength fluid.
5. Auto box stuck when I left the car at -30-40'c for a week - box was low on fluid, indie topped it up and problem never resurfaced.
6. Glow plugs failed - Due to my insufficient knowledge and negligence, I ended up with approx 500gbp bill, as I sheared 2 glow plugs and burnt out a relay. Also due to my negligence, trying to crank the engine at -30'c to start it with failed glow plugs, damaged the Turbo to Cat exhaust seal.
7. Wing mirror lazy, due to some f* person at Malpensa Airport pushing it forward beyond its stop.

What other problems have I had - alloys needed refacing as I used snow chains, bonnet needed a quick touch up as a lorry threw out some plastic wedge denting my bonnet.

This is an ML, and if you read many a post, the subject of heavy abuse - not so, over 1million of these beasts sold and the bad posts probably relate to a very few %.

Im game to buy a new ML/GL within the next year or so and my ML will see me through till then, and then my brother for x number of years thereafter. Great car, ultra reliable, but from what Ive observed/read, if you've got a car, built at the beginning of production, you may want to think about warranties. If your car is mid to end of production, keep your money in a bank.

 

[jberks]

I've posted a similar reply on you other post but basically I wouldn't say that there is really a problem. Yes, its not a 1980's 190 but it isn't that bad either. If something big did go then it would be expensive, but I've never had a breakdown, never had anything mechanical fail (and I've had a 2000 E class -built during the height of cost cutting). I probably spent £750 on non service/wear items (£500 being plug leads!) over 5 years.
My current car hasn't missed a beat. Ok I've only had it since November but I've done 14k so its over a years "average" mileage.
Lots of scare stories and there is the odd lemon knocking about but most Merc owners love their cars.

If you want proof, as you drive around you notice them in driveways and with private plates, so you notice when the owner has changed their car. How many Merc owner have you seen swapping to anything else? Happens but it's rare.

 

[Neil Plumridge]

Thanks guys, this is exactly the sort of reasoned debate I was after.

 

[psmart]

I forgot to add on my post last night, I had two horns rusted away, which was a 10minute job to replace, but given where and how I drive the car, and where the horns are located (just behind the lower section of the front bumper), and that they use two dissimilar metals, not suprising.

My figure of 1million may be an exageration as I havent been able to find out the exact number sold, so have gone on Chassis numbers, which range in the 3/4 million in X series and 1/4 million in A series.

Also, our C-Class (seems a favourite for most people), from new, has only given 1 problem, a wiring loom needed replacing. This on a car which was one of the first Saloons to have the semi-automatic gearbox.

One thing to bear in mind, is 2nd hand. I used to buy 2-3 year old cars, and always had problems, because of the type of car and because of the unknown, how previous owners have treated it. As JBerks mentions, how many Merc owners are swapping? If there swapping, whats the reason, Merc faults or there negligence? All new cars Ive had have never given me a problem (Jeep Grand Cherokee, ML etc).

 

[flyingtech55]

I probably spent £750 on non service/wear items (£500 being plug leads!) over 5 years.

When I got my 'new' 190E I, as usual, renewed all the consumable and service items including HT leads. I used genuine Mercedes parts where practical. I asked the dealer about HT leads and he said "Ah yes sir...£25.00p plus VAT". I thought ...That's not too bad. He then asked "Which HT lead do you require?". WHAT? That means £125 plus VAT for the set. Yeh right. Merc dealers seemingly make the leads up as required from the individual parts.

I sourced a set of good quality after market ones which cost £25 plus VAT for the whole set from my usual motor factors.

You sometimes wonder who Merc are trying to kid.

Gliderman

 

[Hornsthorpe]

Hi, Neil.

My impression is that they are well designed but are not currently being well put together. I was lent a brand new C220cdi diesel auto and one of the belt pulleys fell off after a week and less than 300 miles. Spectacular (the cabin filled with smoke) but not serious. Within 1 hour Mercedes had recovered the vehicle and were offering a replacement.

A friend with a top of the range SL . soft top suffered a catastrophic breakdown of the electrics and had to leave the car badly parked with the top down. He received a parking ticket and had his tax disc stolen!

But my contention is that you don't hear the good stories, only the bad. And I wonder how serious these faults are. One hears of chronic faults on other makes of car but less so on Mercedes.

The question is: In the reliability statistics put together by various agencies, how are the problems graded? I am also willing to bet a Mercedes owner is more likely to register a problem, however slight, because the expectation is higher.

Just my opinion

Regards

Mike H.

 

[flyingtech55]

Hi Mike

If the 190 is anything to go by then the cars are very well designed and in the case of the 190 beautifully put together. It's really easy to work on and it's good sound engineering. However a certain 'cheapening' took place after these and they got very 'electronicey'. A combination of these two things has, I understand, rather degraded the brand. A Mercedes mechanic friend of mine is a fan of the W201 and W124 type cars and says the 'C' class cars are 'tinny'. He tells me to hang onto mine and not change it for a later type.

Tim

 

[Neil Plumridge]

I think this is getting into the "old is better than new" arguement again. I have an '03 C240 and the ride is absolutley superb, the car is quiet and on the whole well put together. There are some points about it that are not as well bolted together as my 99 A6 (such as the centre console, chich feels a little flimsy) but on the whole you certainly know it is a quality car you are driving and it certainly feels more modern than the Audi. Lets put it this way, it's no Ford.

The point of my thread was to determine if the new ones actually break down and are as unrealiable as some web sites would have you believe. This seems like the best place to ask.

 

[gary350]

I have 2 SLKs no problems, I find them to be better than most other cars certainly no worse if you want reliability then buy a top Japanse car but you will have to put up with the looks and inferior design. Remember that most negative comments on forums such as this one are a tiny amount compared to the total amount sold and that includes MB cars, some say that because we pay more for our cars we have the right to be over critical maybe,we do not live in a perfect world.

gary

 

[Neil Plumridge]

As I've said elsewhere, JD Powers had the Corolla at the top for several years in a row. Don't think I'd swap the Merc for one though......

I think the message I am hearing is that they are no les reliable than anything else, they just cost a bit (possibly a lot) more when they go wrong. Mind you, I had a Mazda a few years back and they wanted £400.00 for a front ball joint because it only comes as a complete assembly with the suspension arm! So far east cars are no cheaper when they go wrong, it just doesn't happen very often. btw that was a 626 and I ended up getting a ball joint from Halfords for £25.

 

[davebox]

I think (well, sometimes anyway) that as the above have mentioned, we as Mercedes owners do expect a high quality. Not only do we expect it of our cars, we also expect it of our dealers. When I had a very recent fault, the dealer was not helpful until a new service manager took over. I contemplated changing the car (04 plate C220 D) for something more everyday run of the mill, Vauxhall, Ford etc. My judgement was clouded and I'm glad I did not. My father in law has owned a C200 Mplate for seven or so years, the car has been great. So to cut the jabber, would I buy another? Yes, even to the point of an older one as a second car and If I could afford the extra, an 80's SL. But that's my dreams and not everyone would agree.
So go for it, buy the car you want, do not rush the process and get the best you can afford with everything you want on the car.
Best wishes
DB

 

[bnairb]

This is a serious question. I know there are a lot of negative posts on this and other forums but as I have said in posts elswhere, a lot of people only ever post things or write reports when they have a complaint and not so often when they have something good to say or when things are just "ticking along nicely".

I ask the question because I am pondering an MB extended warrantee and all the negative reviews are pushing me towards shelling-out £85 p/m "just to be on the safe side", but what are peoples genuine experiences of Mercs over a period of a couple of years. I'm thinking specifically newer cars. I know there are a lot of you with classic cars and I know these is some debate over "older is better" but that's not what I am after. I don't want to compare the build quality of a 190E with a new C-Class I just want to know it the newer cars really are seriously unreliable or if they are about as reliable as any other car.

I have a 2003 C240 Avantgarde SE and so far a couple of things have gone wrong in the 6-8 weeks that I have owned it but they have been taken care of by the warantee from the garage I bought it from. I'm just curious to know from the experience of others if I can genuinely expect it to go wrong every other week or if I can expect it to be as reliable as any other car. Some times your just get unlucky.

I wish I had considered extended warranty, I thought it was not needed buying into a quality mark by a reputable manufacturer. Just shows how wrong you can be. I have had a C200K Sports Coupe since new it is now 36 months old and with 35K on the clock. The engine managment light started to come on followed by rough running. Two weeks ago the Mercedes dealer diagnosed the fault, as a problem with the coking up of the exhaust valves to one cylinder, a know problem to him and Mercedes. The answer a new cylinder head. An application for goodwill was made by the dealer to MB in Germany, the responce "no". The dealer is as he says negatiating a three way split on the estimated £3800 repair. In two weeks the dealer has not had the courtesy to return any of my many calls to him through the dreaded call call centre. Extended warranty? save your money, sell the Mercedes, buy a Fiat. I had a twin Cam Strada, great fun, in the garage just about every month, but Fiat never quibbled and even changed the gearbox well out of warranty at no cost as a jesture, no three way split or any underhanded schemes to cover the dealers costs.

 

[jberks]

I wish I had considered extended warranty, I thought it was not needed buying into a quality mark by a reputable manufacturer. Just shows how wrong you can be. I have had a C200K Sports Coupe since new it is now 36 months old and with 35K on the clock. The engine managment light started to come on followed by rough running. Two weeks ago the Mercedes dealer diagnosed the fault, as a problem with the coking up of the exhaust valves to one cylinder, a know problem to him and Mercedes. The answer a new cylinder head. An application for goodwill was made by the dealer to MB in Germany, the responce "no". The dealer is as he says negatiating a three way split on the estimated £3800 repair. In two weeks the dealer has not had the courtesy to return any of my many calls to him through the dreaded call call centre. Extended warranty? save your money, sell the Mercedes, buy a Fiat. I had a twin Cam Strada, great fun, in the garage just about every month, but Fiat never quibbled and even changed the gearbox well out of warranty at no cost as a jesture, no three way split or any underhanded schemes to cover the dealers costs.

Mercedes now have a customer complaints department that allegedly meets daily and has the authority to sort out serious problems. If your car has failed at 36 months, then if its out of warranty, it's only just. Call MBUK and lodge a formal complaint. As I understand it, that fault is a known issue on a run of cylinder heads due to defective manufacture. On that basis I would expect MB to pick up the tab. Just keep making a lot of noise. You shouldn't have to but thats the great corporate world these days. He who shouts loudest ....

 

[mioba]

Like any car, you will have a problem here and there.
But as far as any car goes, Mercedes are the best

 

[94.300td]

They're in a different class

I have a 94 e300d estate, 250 000 miles on the clock and still drives lovely and tight, I try to do all the maintenence etc myself (cheaper) but sometimes it does have to go to the garage for example when I was changing the glowplugs and one wouldn't budge.

While I have had it nothing has really gone wrong, the odd little thing here and there just wear and tear really, it is a tool at the end of the day and carts my family, boat, dogs, caravan, mates, fishing gear, shopping and camping gear everywhere, (not all at once!)

And it is utterly reliable and trustworthy,

put it this way,

last month we went to scotland for a week, on the way up, the car pulled 1700kg of caravan and three of my (not small) mates with the dogs in the back 550 miles.

once there we left the caravan at the site and towed my dads boat all around the highlands from loch to loch and used the merc to launch and recover it.

Then there was the return journey with the caravan, mates etc.

A quick wash and hoover later and it looks like new again, NOT A DROP OF OIL NEEDED, whereas the other car we took (discovery with a third of the miles on it) needed two pints, AND HE WASN'T TOWING!

So on the whole, It's all good and I love it. :-D

I do think there is an element of we only post threads when there is a problem but at the end of the day these cars are a cut above the rest and I mpersonally like everything to be pefect, when I drove an escort I didn't really care if there was a little wind noise for example, but with the merc I'll spend hours looking for it...

Excellent forum, thanks for all the help guys, much, much appreciated

 

[television]

Very hard to judge from a forum, the press say that the R230 has many problems, but we have no one on the forum that owns one, and not one question asked ever, apart from one from me. and there is quite a lot around.

malcolm

 

[johnmc]

Hi,
Lots of single war stories (good or bad) are of no value when deciding if Merc is good or bad. To know whether a car or a marque is reliable/good/bad needs a very high number of opinions, just like you get from JD Power or What Car reliability surveys. You'll always find someone who says a car is good, and another that says it's hopeless based on what happened to them and their mates.

Statistically JD power rates Merc as mediocre overall. Reliability surveys of 3 year old plus cars rates them as about average. You might get a good one that meets your individual needs, but the risk of getting problems is higher with Merc than with others like BMW or Lexus. Make your choice and pay your cash! None of the prestige cars are perfect, but others are a lower risk if all you want is peace of mind.

There's limited statistical evidence (Autoexpress survey) that W211 2004 cars are better than 2003. Still well below the other marques. JD power and What Car look at older cars (3 years or more), we'll have better evidence as the 2004 cars hit 3 years old, not too long then! Watch for the next wave of reports.

John

 

[ian l]

Hi,
I have just completed 11,000 miles in my c220cdi saloon. Since first registration in October 2005 it has not seen the inside of the dealer's workshop. Not a squeek nor rattle and no oil either! A great car - the best I have owned.

 

[psmart]

Lots of single war stories (good or bad) are of no value when deciding if Merc is good or bad. To know whether a car or a marque is reliable/good/bad needs a very high number of opinions, just like you get from JD Power or What Car reliability surveys. You'll always find someone who says a car is good, and another that says it's hopeless based on what happened to them and their mates.

As Neill's original question stands, I think he is wise enough not to trust individuals opinions or press opinions. I wouldnt put any trust in the press, as any politician or work colleague can show or tell you, its only a matter of how you ask a question and the people you choose to warrant the answer you are looking for. If I went around my office and asked opinions of BMW's, I would get a resounding negative, as my Northern German colleagues are not favourable towards the Bavarians. BMW's are nice cars, but after one almost killed me at 120mph (driving it) and another left me stranded in a ditch, I avoid them like the plague, for no other reason than my previous experience.

As per many a post on this Forum, people perceive Mercs as something special and have a high expectation of them, so when even the slightest fault (such as ash-tray being full) occurs, they b-and-m.

What is needed on this forum is those people who own Mercs and who are not experiencing any faults, to give their opinions. Thus a potential Merc buyer, by reading this forum could get a true picture of Merc ownership.