Looking for power

[money_maker]

i there im in the search for more power for my mercedes benz c200 sports coupe 1.8(163bhp) w203 i look at the kleemann work shop in the uk and was told it was shut down i need a induction kit and other mods can you help out guys

 

[wireman]

Get one with a bigger engine.

 

[daniel3v6]

it would be cheaper and easier in the long run

 

[daniel3v6]

at the end of the day induction kits/exhausts/air filters etc don't really do much for performance, nothing you would really notice anyway.

They are usually just for noise and thats about it.

 

[240D 3.0VNTi]

They are usually just for noise and thats about it.

Ditto. Mercedes is not known for making restrictive intake/exhaust systems. Changing them will just make more noise, increase the amount of dirt ingested into the engine and damage the MAF sensor if the filter is of the oiled type.

 

[bigasotonuk]

Ditto. Mercedes is not known for making restrictive intake/exhaust systems. Changing them will just make more noise, increase the amount of dirt ingested into the engine and damage the MAF sensor if the filter is of the oiled type.

Hi,
You,ve not read the reports on the headers on the C43/V8 then.
I,ll find them later and post them.

 

[Legoman]

only thing i disagree on is the exhaust system , this can make a difference if you replace the whole lot as i am as my xmas pressie (only way i could convince my missus lol) , i found a great place in birmingham http://www.mijperformance.com/index.html that specialize in mercedes , i was going to use powerflow but after a chat they dont seem to have anywhere near the knowledge of mij , he reckons ill see some good power gains when i replace the system , remove the cats and have custom manifolds made , obviously this isnt cheap , im going for mild sport , dont want some boy racer noise , but id like a little noise as the car was designed when giving it some welly .

the air filter comment is true , german cars normally have good systems so just leave it or change the panel for a green filter one , dont waste your time with a 'cone' filter , these only suit gaysaxo's

try just running your car on 98 octane rather than 95 , number of boyracers i see with 'modded' cars filling up with 95! it baffles me lol , why mod a car then stick sub rate fuel in it and lose horsepower?!

 

[money_maker]

i think a modified mercedes benz it amazing shows people its not just old grandads that drive them (not being cheeky) i am waiting for kleemann getting back to me

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi,
Excellent link legoman have you had a price back from them? they seem to know what there doing.
I would be interested in a pair of manifolds as the Kleeman items are in excess of £3000 i,m looking for alternatives so i,ll give them an e-mail for a price

 

[television]

This thread has got me thinking, and I could polish a stainless system

 

[Legoman]

well i priced a system from downpipe back and it came to a respectable 400 quid and 3-4 hour fitting time , so im awaiting a reply for the whole lot , im aiming at £1000 spending roughly , will be interesting to see

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi,
That sounds a good price i,ll be interested to know how much the manifold is.
Yours is a straight six i take it?

 

[Legoman]

yep , i sent them a blue print so they know what my car has , the manifolds (theres 2 on 6 cylinder models) are the same as the standard 300 series 6 cylinder , the difference with mine is it stays as a dual pipe system all the way through unlike the 3 litre variant which merges into a single pipe. ill list the quote price when they get back to me , i plan to go up to them early december.

p.s on all my cars ive always had stainless steel exhaust systems , the last two cars were both magnex , alot of people think its expensive but if you keep the car a long time it pays for itself and they always sound better! , also its nice seeing it stay clean , i hate the sight of a rusty exhaust!.

 

[popuptoaster]

I'd like to see independant back to back dyno tests of any performance exhaust vs a brand new standard one, most manufactures these days cant afford to give up any performance or mpg by fitting restrictive exhausts and they have MUCH more money to spend on design and development than independant exhaust tuners.

 

[A210AMG]

Hello,

I fitted a carbob CAI (cold air induction kit) to my last car a BMW 330, it 'said' up to 15bhp gain.

I doubt it very much but for me roof down and second gear you could hear it suck in small children

From a 'normal' non turbo or Derv Mer you are probably looking at maybe 15bhp if you chip, exhaust and change the filter.

It would probably 'feel' quicker and go quicker in a funny way if you fitted sports suspension / wider tyres.

saying that I have asked DMS who remap cars for a quote on my Bus, I've got the e-mail somwhere what extra they could give it.

 

[Legoman]

I'd like to see independant back to back dyno tests of any performance exhaust vs a brand new standard one, most manufactures these days cant afford to give up any performance or mpg by fitting restrictive exhausts and they have MUCH more money to spend on design and development than independant exhaust tuners.

thats soo wrong , sorry to say , but manufacturers produce exhausts that are cost effective , same as engines , hence gas flowing and head work is so effective , obviously you havent seen the power gains a 4 branch straight through manifold supplys , also keep in mind on a car like mine its 16 years old , technology has come along way , stainless steel systems are so much cheaper to produce in the last few years than they ever were , yes on a new amg mercedes you wont see any gain , but why would you change it anyway?! , older cars will definately benefit from a new system. catalytic convertors have come along way too since they first made them.

i once owned a 205 gti , its original horsepower was 130bhp , after i had extensive head work , twin weber carbs , larger cam and valves and a magnex full system + 4 branch manifold , the car produced over
200bhp , brabus and amg have also proved that you can improve cars with various mods including exhausts etc. its just how large your wallet is. even jeremy clarkson admits you can improve a standard car.

im also willing to bet an independant exhaust maker like magnex could produce an exhaust on a brand new amg mercedes and get power gains.

 

[popuptoaster]

Ive had lots of performance/tuned/engine swopped cars (my current project is a Mk 5 Cortina with a 200bhp+ Cosworth V6 in it) nearly every single independant test has performance exhausts making less power than a standard one, they should be tested against a brand new OE one as old age will slow gas flow as will cheap "quick fit" exhausts as although they look the same from outside the internal box design is usually different.

Back in the days when cars had squared off cast manifolds there was much more to be gained, but these days 99% of cars have doubled up tubular cast manifolds of a much better flowing design.

As it happens the 1.9 205 GTI is one of the worst offenders for aftermarket companies claiming large power gains as the engine is quite highly tuned anyway, your mods will have worked as you have had lots of things done that compliment each other and work together to produce more power, doing one single thing like fitting an exhaust or cam or induction kit usually does nothing, most of the time your better off fitting a brand new OE item.

Very few tuning companies will give you a written gaurantee of what power your engine will gain from their "improved" components and that should tell you something, the other forum i use has regular rolling road sessions at Track and Road in rainham (they do a lot of work for major manufacturers as well as sorting out mapping for large race teams (lister jag, noble etc) and the amount of cars you see with LESS power than standard when fitted with aftermarket bolt on parts is amazing.

Most of the reason to buy an aftermarket exhaust is that you'll normaly get it cheaper and noisier and only sacrifice 2 or 3bhp and they are usually more fashionable with a bigger chrome end on them.

If a company is so confidant its system is better than standard i think they would have no problem with giving a nice money back gaurantee if the car didnt make more power.

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi,
I must disagree with the point regarding the manifolds on modern cars i,ve not seen tubular manifolds fitted as standard on a car for years.
Though the manifolds appear to be better designed they still leave a lot to be desired and are a result of compromise of expense, emissions, noise regulations and other constraints.
Most so called 'performance exhausts' are a collection of silencers that are manufactured for universal fitment to any car.
A true performance exhaust is tuned to the car with dyno-run readings, and ECU/chip modifications,taken with the slightest change to the system being tried, ECU/chip mods are nessacary to optimise the increased flow through the system and to stop the engine from running to lean.
Manifolds have to be properly gas flowed and each separate intake pipe made of equal lengths with smooth sweeping curves to the pipe to maintain the 'freeflow' through it.
You have an old cortina, Fords use to fit a exhaust manifold to the 1.6 OHC of this pattern (4-branch it was refferred to i think) and i have never seen anything like this fitted to modern 'everyday' cars

 

[popuptoaster]

the ford manifiold you are reffering to is tubular steel and was optional on lots of different models, most modern cars have cast iron manifolds the same as older cars but they are far closer to tubular steel designs than they used to be.

I also know that manufacturers are constrained by noise/emissions/cost considerations, but this is where there much larger design budgets come into play. In this day and age they cant afford to give up MPG or performance figures and will make much more effort to design efficient engines than they did in the past.

I'm not saying its impossible to improve on standard equipment, its just not as easy as it used to be, and i have seen some very strange ideas about how to make a car make more power.

As a "for instance" removing the cats from the exhaust on my Cosworth V6 can give about 5bhp (old, inefficiently designed) but fitting a bigger bore exhaust costs power because the valve timing and head design uses the back pressure in the exhaust to stop the incoming charge being blown out the exhaust, so adding a freeflow system allows it to escape.

I wouldnt go on price or style or word of mouth unless it was backed up with some testing is all i'm saying

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi m8,
Just doing a bit of googling i,ve not found the article on my C43 but take a look at this link for the Mercedes newer v6 motor.

http://www.gmpperformance.com/index.cfm?PG=detail&PID=142803