Matal swarf and oil

stu2009

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Thank you for all your responses on my previous post about my vito 112 cdi 99v running badly, rough, lack of power and revs jumping back when they hit about 3200.

I have recently dismantled the top of the engine to get at the injectors and noticed alot of oil in the egr valve. So much that i had to pour it out (1/4 of a mug full). I also found steel swarf lining the oily air pipe coming up from the intercooler. I take it this means the turbo has gone?

It concerns me that i have taken this vehicle to 4 garages including the main agent over that last 2 months and nobody has spotted this. They all plugged it into their diagnostic computers and went from there. Unfortunately none of the error codes related to the turbo. Am i wrong in thinking its the turbo?

I have paid out £1200 trying to get this problem fixed and garages replacing parts.
 

Markieboye

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Be interesting to know if it is and then solve the RPM limit problem, as have a similar RPM issue on my E320CDi

Mark
 
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stu2009

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I have swapped the turbo for another second hand unit. The engine still has the same symptoms. You can hear the turbo kicking in as you could before. Sounds like its working fine. If it wasnt the turbo, what else would cause there to be loads of oil in the egr valve and metal swarf in the air inlet pipes between the intercooler and manifold?
 

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I was hoping one of the techies could have joined in this post
 

Number_Cruncher

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Swarf in the inlet tract downstream of the turbo usually means the impellor has been rubbing against the housing.

While the turbo was off, were the oil line to and the drain pipe from the turbo check to make sure they were free of obstruction?

If the swarf was significant, it may be worth doing a compression test, and it and the oil lost may also be blocking the intercooler.
 
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stu2009

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Thanks for your reply.
I took the cover off the old turbo impellor. I have looked at it quite closely. The leading edges of the impellor blades are a bit rough but it doesnt appear to have been rubbing and there doesnt appear to be more that 1 mm of movement on the bearing back and forth. I will be removing the intercooler and gubins tomorrow, weather permitting.
 

turbopete

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1mm of movement seems like a lot in something the size of a turbo. i could be wrong and it may be normal though
 

Number_Cruncher

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>>The leading edges of the impellor blades are a bit rough

They shouldn't be; it sounds like they have been rubbing. You shouldn't see any evidence of there having been rubbing against the bore of the inlet to intake side of the turbo.
 
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stu2009

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When i say leading edge i mean the top edges that face straight down the inlet pipe not the edges that are close the the pipe walls. I have tried to show this with a red arrow on an attached picture. The only way i can see that it would be rough is if dirt or other particles got past the air filter and hit the spinning impeller
 

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stu2009

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There is actually a little chunk taken out of one of the blades. I have seen rough edges on other working turbos of this age
 

Number_Cruncher

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Yes, damage there is caused by inadequate air filtration.

What filters were used, and how frequently were they changed?
 
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stu2009

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The air filter was not properly fitted by the garage at last service and i could hear a wooshing noise for about 3 months before i found out what it was and put it in properly myself. But does this mean it wasnt working properly. I could hear it spinning up as normal with out any horrible noises.
 

Number_Cruncher

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>>The air filter was not properly fitted by the garage at last service...

That's more than enough to ruin a turbo, and an engine too.
 
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stu2009

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I sorted the air filter before the problems occured. Maybe a month later the engine has full power but jumps back when the revs hit 3200. If i kept my foot down the engine cut out. So i put it into the garage and they had it for 3 weeks. When i got it back it was running rough with less power and still had the revs jumping back at 3200. I do trust this garage. It has been to 4 garages. (main agent, indi diesel specialist, indi merc specialist and local garage). They all gave it back and said dont know. Have spent £1200 to date trying to sort it.
Error codes p1354 and p0201
-Leak back test on injectors
-Ecu tested by ecu doctor
-Wiring between ecu and injectors tested.
-New cam and crank sensors
-New seals on all injectors as one or two were leaking
-Change turbo
-New hot film air sensor
I am stripping down the engine and will eventually get to the timing chain and look to see if timing is ok but will check everything on the way. Have got rocker cover off but teeth (all have flat tops) and chain look ok
 

Bolide

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Have you spoken to Brian at Auto Marine Diesel in Portslade?

Have you had compression and leak-down tests done?

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk
 
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stu2009

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I have been told by an indi merc specialist that these codes wouldnt make my van drive the way it does. So i am looking for a mechanical fault. Unless it is the timing? Is the chain stretching or tensioner giving as the revs go up and the ecu is cutting the fuel in an attempt to protect the engine as is it goes out of time?
 

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Your engine would not run with the chain 1 tooth out

I will take a look at the same engine as used on a car, it is easier for me to do that
 

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Thank you for all your responses on my previous post about my vito 112 cdi 99v running badly, rough, lack of power and revs jumping back when they hit about 3200.

I have recently dismantled the top of the engine to get at the injectors and noticed alot of oil in the egr valve. So much that i had to pour it out (1/4 of a mug full). I also found steel swarf lining the oily air pipe coming up from the intercooler. I take it this means the turbo has gone?

It concerns me that i have taken this vehicle to 4 garages including the main agent over that last 2 months and nobody has spotted this. They all plugged it into their diagnostic computers and went from there. Unfortunately none of the error codes related to the turbo. Am i wrong in thinking its the turbo?

I have paid out £1200 trying to get this problem fixed and garages replacing parts.

Can you describe the "swarf" please. A type of metal mesh is often used to stop oil being unintentionally transferred in an air transfer hose eg from an tappet cover to an aircleaner on older engines. It is also used in hoses from egr's sometimes. Is it something like that or metal fragments from a damaged metal article? Have you described the pipe correctly as coming from the intercooler?
 
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stu2009

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Thanks for your reply.
The engine starts on the button. Idles ok. It is a little rough if you really concentrate. As it revs up the vibration gets worse, not too bad in neutral but very bad under load. Even in neutral it is very sluggish to rev up. When it hits 3200 the revs jump back and it will oscillate between 2800 and 3200 every 0.5 seconds. When driving along its like some one has slammed on the brakes, keep your foot down and the engine cuts out. You could also hear it chuffing almost like exhaust manifold gasket had gone when you put your foot flat down at 2500 rpm when i take my foot off the gas and allow the gears to turn the engine over the noise is gone. (its not injector seals).

There was not loads of swarf. I wiped my finger around the inside of the large air inlet pipe (very oily) running from the intercooler to in inlet manifold and when i rubbed my finger and thumb together i could see shiny metalic fillings very small/fine like you would get off a file. I put a magnet on then to make sure they were steel, which they were.
 
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