Mercedes Diesels: new CLK and E class

[shadowninja]

I have no idea how you people can drive them. The sound is appalling. Have tried both just for academic purposes. The E class is very luxurious in an executive way (and therefore very not me). The CLK is very poverty spec; better off putting the money towards a W208 with a V8 and saving about £10k-15k. Sounds better and more toys for the money.

I would never buy a diesel unless I lost my hearing.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

You soon get used to the slight amount of clatter on start-up and its only really noticable in the depths of winter. What brings a smile to the face is when you pass all those filling stations. No downside to a modern deisel and the engines are neccessarily made much stronger than petrol types.

 

[shadowninja]

I heard them the entire time I drove. Well, until I cranked the radio right up to drown out the sound.

 

[hawk20]

I have no idea how you people can drive them. The sound is appalling. Have tried both just for academic purposes. The E class is very luxurious in an executive way (and therefore very not me). The CLK is very poverty spec; better off putting the money towards a W208 with a V8 and saving about £10k-15k. Sounds better and more toys for the money.

I would never buy a diesel unless I lost my hearing.

What is it about petrol powered car owners that drives them to want to run down diesels so often? Do you feel threatened by the success of diesels in recent years so much that you want to abuse other people's choice. Not very nice.

I never see a thread where diesel owners take so much delight in slagging off the choice of petrolheads.

I have been driving the new 221 series S class for over a week. It has the new 320cdi engine also found in the latest E class and C class.

It is so smooth and so quiet, I just cannot believe it is diesel. Even when I get out of the car there is no diesel clatter at all. A miracle. I then opened the bonnet to see if this was just due to sound deadening. But it is not. Bonnet open the engine could fool many into thinking it was petrol.

I love my 220 series S320cdi and the huge torque of the engine. Although a straight six and legendary for its smoothness, I have to admit the new V6 is amazing.

And given that the 3 litre diesel gives better performance than the 3.5 litre petrol, and does 35 mpg on the combined cycle, I wouldn't buy a petrol version unless I was brain dead.

 

[jberks]

Yes, the previous generation diesels are noisy. Even the straight 6 320cdi isn't exactly quiet (the noise surprised me the first time I drove it) and my 270 certainly couldn't be described as refined, especially after my V6 240.

However, like most things, you get used to it far more quickly than you might think. What you also get addicted to is passing petrol stations and the low down grunt that you can't see this side of a V8. No more kick down to pass something, just a gentle squeaze of the throttle. Also, at motorway speeds the in-gear pick up is addictive.

Now factor in the new diesels..
I sat in the new E220 a few months ago and was amazed. noise almost eliminated and more power at the same time. Felt no less refined than any merc 4 pot. I then drove the E320cdi v6 and left wondering why you'd drive anything else. V8 performance, 1.2l economy and within a heard breadth of being as quiet and smooth as my old 240. To put it in perspective, I went out in my mates. I climbed in, closed the door and was surprised when he simply flicked it into D and drove off. I genuinely didn't know it was running - and I was standing outside initially. I haven't had that experience since my Dad's 380 V8 in the 80s.

I bought my 270 to save money on fuel and depreciation and to handle a milllion miles. I considered paying less in the first place and getting another petrol V6 but figured the extra torque on motorways would be a boon - and it is. Sure if the choice was that or a 500 V8 and fuel was free I'd have the 500 but given £1 per L, the new 320cdi is a no brainer. Take one out, you may be surprised.

 

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Don't put to many miles on it jb I might want to buy it at 8 years old!!
Is it showing any signs of rust yet?
TB

 

[shadowninja]

What is it about petrol powered car owners that drives them to want to run down diesels so often? Do you feel threatened by the success of diesels in recent years so much that you want to abuse other people's choice.

What a strange thought process! Threatened?? I have no vested interest in whether the diesel or petrol engine does well. That Vauxhall ran a diesel race car in a GT series is fantastic in my opinion.

I just really found the 2007 E-class CDI (approx 1500 miles on the clock) and 2006 CLK CDI (approx 12000 miles on the clock) to be clattery. Such a horrible sound. I don't care that the MPG is better or it lasts longer or the technology is clever. For me, cars are about passion and enjoyment, the sound being part of the experience as much as brutal acceleration, hence I tend to buy sports cars with turbos or V8s. *shrug*

PS I see you're coming on Sunday. We can compare notes... I'll be in the rattly CLK.

 

[benzo]

You say tomato....

My E320cdi is the first diesel I have driven/owned. It won't be the last.

Yes it is noisy, and the noise can be especially annoying on cold starts -but the power and low down torque make up for it ample. Like Jberks said, I would only replace my e320 cdi with an e500 and then if petrol was free. I drive mine in Sport (S) mode and I am very heavy footed so I'll hate to be stopping for fuel once or more every week.

I did drive an e320 before going for the cdi, and though much quieter,the power range did not put a smile on my face the way the cdi did.

I will eventually trade in the e320cdi for another one when the new shape (w212?) comes out.

You really shouldn't run people down for making their own choices. That's what makes us individuals.

 

[clk200]

What a strange thought process! Threatened?? I have no vested interest in whether the diesel or petrol engine does well. That Vauxhall ran a diesel race car in a GT series is fantastic in my opinion.

I just really found the 2007 E-class CDI (approx 1500 miles on the clock) and 2006 CLK CDI (approx 12000 miles on the clock) to be clattery. Such a horrible sound. I don't care that the MPG is better or it lasts longer or the technology is clever. For me, cars are about passion and enjoyment, the sound being part of the experience as much as brutal acceleration, hence I tend to buy sports cars with turbos or V8s. *shrug*

PS I see you're coming on Sunday. We can compare notes... I'll be in the rattly CLK.

Which models did you drive, 220, 270 or 320?

 

[shadowninja]

E270 and CLK 220, I think.

I am not "running people down". I just said, "I have no idea how you people can drive them." If anything I did notice someone accuse petrol drivers of being brain dead. I can see that if you purely bought the car for logical reasons then it might work, but I don't know if I could put up with the more than uninspiring sound. That you need to justify a diesel really says something. I have no need to justify having a V8 under the bonnet. Some people say they're primitive and uneconomical. *shrug*

 

[jberks]

I guess if you were used to a howling V8 petrol and jumped into a cdi, then yes, it will be less refined and a bit of a step down. But, jump out of a new roller and climb into a new S350 and you'd probably feel the same.

Cars have to serve 2 often conflicting requirements. On the one hand they have to be enjoyable. OK - join the queue for the SL55. On the other hand, we have to get all sorts of stuff in them, drive tens of thousands of miles a year and not have to face the Bailiff when we get home. On that basis, all queue up for a Mondeo estate.

Most of us accept a little more cost and get a merc but have to temper that will better economy - after all 22mpg @ 8k pa isn't really a problem. When you're doing 40k pa it is. Depreciation is a complicated argument for those of us that buy newsed as, whilst we'll get more from a diesel at the end, we pay more at the start. From new however, the diesel makes a lot more sense.

As far as fun is concerned, my E240 was an increadibly refined long distance cruiser but it never made me grin. I took out a 320 petrol and again, refined and quick, but not 'fun'. The power delivery of the previous generation cdis however are really fun, with huge spurts of power (between turbo lag admittedly). I remember taking out a C250 in the late 90's. that kick when the turbo came in was addictive. The same in even greater gulps is the straight 6 320 cdi. Ok noisy but you forgave it the instant your head slammed into the headrest whilst the trip continued to show 38mpg.

That was the one slightly irrational thing I have against the newer cdis infact. In reality they are quicker than the predecessors but with a wider power band (far more useful in real terms), they just dont have that kick in the back you get from the old 270 and 320s.

It's all a compromise. If it wasn't, I admit it, I'd be driving a S600, but then wouldn't we all?

 

[shadowninja]

I agree. However, it would be a huge compromise for me to have to use a diesel.

As for the turbo kick, I'd choose a turbocharged petrol engine for a nicer sound with the turbo kick.

But no, I wouldn't drive an S600. Not yet, anyway.

 

[Rory]

I can happily drive my C270CDi because at 50 MPG I'm being paid £20 for every gallon of diesel (at about £4.40) I use, therefore £15.60 in my back pocket.

Burbling along on the motorway, who cares what sort of engine is under the bonnet? I think a diesel auto has to be the more effortless at 70-80MPH motorway cruising.

 

[shadowninja]

The first part, I can appreciate.

Burble? Doubt that is the correct term. The constant clatter, I guess, would be drowned out by loud music.

 

[Rory]

The first part, I can appreciate.

Burble? Doubt that is the correct term. The constant clatter, I guess, would be drowned out by loud music.

The 2007 E Class you drove can't have been a 270 (straight 5 cyl) - it would have been 4cyl 220 or 6 cyl V6 280 or 320. If it was a V6 then it should have been all but silent.

I can assure you that the 5 cyl engine burble's - it's quite a nice noise, I think. It sounds rather like a big lazy marine engine. And at 70MPH it's doing a shade over 2000rpm so it's hardly moving.
Honestly, to say you'd have to drown it out with the radio is ridiculous - I only ever have mine on in the background.


OK, if you stuck your head under the bonnet after a cold start on cold morning then it clatters - so I avoid doing that!


I drove a manual 330 petrol BMW for a while and that was beautiful on fast A roads, but the 270CDi (or any larger diesel auto) is perfect for relaxed cruising.

 

[hawk20]

Yes, the previous generation diesels are noisy. Even the straight 6 320cdi isn't exactly quiet (the noise surprised me the first time I drove it) and my 270 certainly couldn't be described as refined, especially after my V6 240.

However, like most things, you get used to it far more quickly than you might think. What you also get addicted to is passing petrol stations and the low down grunt that you can't see this side of a V8. No more kick down to pass something, just a gentle squeaze of the throttle. Also, at motorway speeds the in-gear pick up is addictive.

Now factor in the new diesels..
I sat in the new E220 a few months ago and was amazed. noise almost eliminated and more power at the same time. Felt no less refined than any merc 4 pot. I then drove the E320cdi v6 and left wondering why you'd drive anything else. V8 performance, 1.2l economy and within a heard breadth of being as quiet and smooth as my old 240. To put it in perspective, I went out in my mates. I climbed in, closed the door and was surprised when he simply flicked it into D and drove off. I genuinely didn't know it was running - and I was standing outside initially. I haven't had that experience since my Dad's 380 V8 in the 80s.

I bought my 270 to save money on fuel and depreciation and to handle a milllion miles. I considered paying less in the first place and getting another petrol V6 but figured the extra torque on motorways would be a boon - and it is. Sure if the choice was that or a 500 V8 and fuel was free I'd have the 500 but given £1 per L, the new 320cdi is a no brainer. Take one out, you may be surprised.

Shadownija says he drove the 2007 E270cdi. Well there isn't such a vehicle unless it was left unsold and first registered in 2007.

What does make sense is that he drove an E270cdi. I had one and they were a tad noisy at rest, but had loads of grunt and you couldn't hear the engine at cruising speeds. Wonderful thump in the back on take-off.

I've been driving an S320cdi -the new 221 series- with the V6 diesel and I own a 220 series 320cdi with the older straight 6 engine so I have a really good comparison. And I have owned lots of petrol Mercs.

The new 320 is unbelievably quiet. Re-read the JBerks quote above. Everything he says is right. These new diesels are as so quiet that you have to strain to tell any difference from petrol engines. Just re-read JBerks. Spot on.

As for ShadowNinja, we are used to petrolheads loving to knock diesel as it progressively takes over the world. But do yourself a favour. Just go back to your dealer and ask to borrow an E320cdi V6 from 2007 or an S 320cdi from 2007 (same engine). And if you are not genuinely amazed, I owe you a pint at the next get-together.

Lastly, watch the road tests. They are giving decibel readings for the diesels as low as the petrols. But who cares? Is the lovely sound of an engine working now the only thing that petrolheads can find to criticise in the new diesels. I like the sound of the old 270.

 

[hawk20]

As far as fun is concerned, my E240 was an increadibly refined long distance cruiser but it never made me grin. I took out a 320 petrol and again, refined and quick, but not 'fun'. The power delivery of the previous generation cdis however are really fun, with huge spurts of power (between turbo lag admittedly). I remember taking out a C250 in the late 90's. that kick when the turbo came in was addictive. The same in even greater gulps is the straight 6 320 cdi. Ok noisy but you forgave it the instant your head slammed into the headrest whilst the trip continued to show 38mpg.

That was the one slightly irrational thing I have against the newer cdis infact. In reality they are quicker than the predecessors but with a wider power band (far more useful in real terms), they just dont have that kick in the back you get from the old 270 and 320s.

Sorry to quote Jberks again but I find this different point he makes especially interesting. My 220 series 320cdi gives a huge punch in the back when accelerating. Great gulps of torque. The 211 series has as good 0-62 times but doesn't feel remotely similar. Why should that be?
Has it anything to do with the 7 speed box? Different turbo settings?

I love the smooth, effortless, near silent power of the V6 but really miss that brutal shove of the straight six.

 

[shadowninja]

Shadownija says he drove the 2007 E270cdi.

[snip]

Is the lovely sound of an engine working now the only thing that petrolheads can find to criticise in the new diesels. I like the sound of the old 270.

TBH, it may have been the E320; I didn't really pay attention (is there any way of telling from just the spec? 18" alloys, two chrome exhausts (one on either side), paddleshift behind steering wheel, hidden autochanger in dash (that was ****** cool), dark wood trim, 7 gears). It was quick enough for a large car (and had better acceleration than the CLK220 CDI). And I admit, on the motorway, quiet enough to ignore. Just that when I pressed on, it wasn't a sound that made me want to (in fact it made me want to do the opposite just to shut the thing up... which may be a good thing in terms of licences). As stated previously, I have nothing against diesels bar the sound, but it is the sound alone that puts me off the whole experience. You're lucky that you like the sound of a diesel!

 

[hawk20]

But take up my point and try the new V6 320cdi and I promise you will be amazed. Television recently tried one (he has an SL500) and was as amazed as I am. I like the sound of the 270 BUT the point is the sound has gone on the new diesels. Just try one and stand back to be amazed -or I owe you a pint.

I've done a week in a 211 series S320cdi 2007
a week in an ML 320cdi 2007 and am now having a week in an S320cdi Long wheel-base.

 

[shadowninja]

Amazed at what? I am not questioning the power distribution.