Mercedes is no longer a proper premium brand

[gizze]

I have to say Colin, I thought it was just a wind up, what I believe is called 'trolling' on the interweb?
But reading on it seemed not.

I have also had an F11 520d touring, the forums were rife with issues on these, mainly the suspension and steering and severe pulling and tramlining, plus, they still eat the inside edges of tyres, even though they change the suspension set up from late 2011.
I love BMWs, had loads of the last 15 years or so, from 535d and 335i tourings and M3's and M3 CSL's through to little 120 and 123D's, great cars, but the image of those is terrible, almost embarrassed to say what I own when people ask, they are about as Chav as you can buy, I know Audi owners will take offence to that, that is a crown they like to hold.

I still think the guy must be on a wind up, either that or thick as ****?

 

[Peter C1974]

I still think the guy must be on a wind up, either that or thick as ****?

I can assure you that neither apply.

 

[Peter C1974]

Having read 17 pages of responses to my somewhat controversial original post I have the following to say:

Thank you to all those who agreed with me.
Thank you to all those who disagreed with me but were sensible enough to provide strong arguments to support their views, which were clearly very different to mine.
As for those Toms, Dicks and Harrys who felt the need to be to abusive and rude, in the words of gizze **** ***!

Surely a public internet forum is the place to express ones opinions and invite other members to discuss matters in a sensible fashion? Why do some members feel it is necessary to be abusive and rude just because they either do not agree with the OP’s comments or simply do not understand the point he tried to make? Poor show people.

 

[toby1]

Surely a public internet forum is the place to express one's opinions and invite other members to discuss matters in a sensible fashion? Why do some members feel it is necessary to be abusive and rude just because they either do not agree with the OP’s comments or simply do not understand the point he tried to make? Poor show people.

Alas that is the way of the world of internet forums

 

[Peter C1974]

Alas that is the way of the world of internet forums

Perhaps other forums are more closely moderated and abusive comments are not so readily tolerated?

 

[d215yq]

Surely a public internet forum is the place to express ones opinions and invite other members to discuss matters in a sensible fashion? Why do some members feel it is necessary to be abusive and rude just because they either do not agree with the OP’s comments or simply do not understand the point he tried to make? Poor show people.

When you write your opinions in such a controversial and unsensible manner what do you expect. Whatever your opinion i'm glad you made your post, that it ran to so many pages and still hasn't been closed down. But...if you declare that a mercedes is common and a base model 520d is some exclusive product on a mercedes forum you deserve all the mocking you get, and add in the class based nonsense and it just appears to be trolling.

Your post reminds me (and i'm sure many others) of how lucky some of us are to be able to drive the car we want without investigating how common it is and how it conveys our image to the world, instead gaining popularity and pleasure from much more important and deeper things in life. Since leaving the UK I don't really know any badge snobs that think like this so i close by thanking you for the reminder that i don't need to think like this and nor waste my time talking to others with such priorities!

 

[gizze]

I can assure you that neither apply.

No you can't, you can assure me you were not on a wind up, the latter has to be proved.

The use of the word thick was probably unjust, ignorant was probably a better choice.
If you genuinely didn't think your comments were going to offend many current Mercedes owners.

Having read 17 pages of responses to my somewhat controversial original post I have the following to say:

Thank you to all those who agreed with me.
Thank you to all those who disagreed with me but were sensible enough to provide strong arguments to support their views, which were clearly very different to mine.
As for those Toms, Dicks and Harrys who felt the need to be to abusive and rude, in the words of gizze **** ***!

Surely a public internet forum is the place to express ones opinions and invite other members to discuss matters in a sensible fashion? Why do some members feel it is necessary to be abusive and rude just because they either do not agree with the OP’s comments or simply do not understand the point he tried to make? Poor show people.

I do agree with many of your comments, however the way it was worded was a wind up, it was being controversial, it was trolling (which is simply posting something that you know full well will get a heated response).

I actually thought you were having a pop at the "I don't rent cars brigade" those that happily loose £30k in depreciation but are in no way stupid enough to fall for the finance trap and pay £15k over the same period to a rental company.
"I OWN MY CAR!!"



Banging on about abuse is a strange one, I don't find swear words abusive in the slightest, little digs and snide comments I do.
So let's not get on our high horse about who is being abusive.


I think most got exactly what you were saying.

Why are you talking about yourself in the third person?

 

[SteveX]

I wanted to highlight the FACT that Mercedes cars were once special, they were machines coveted by their owners, loved and cherished. My company (firm of chartered surveyors) runs a fleet of C Classes and most of the twenty something drivers don't give a **** what they drive.

My MB is loved and special to me

I gave up my Porsche 911 in favour of the 209, and I gave up BMW a long long time ago before any of them. I'm affraid BMW wouldn't get a look in these days, but then again, they would certainly be above Ford or Vauxhall!

I have had quite a few BMW's, my most memorable ones as example was an M535i about 14 years ago - it was fantastic, classic shape, solid and pokey, and my 3.8 E34 M5 was great some 10 or so years ago, my E36 M3 that followed not so, and the trash after that I experienced, well, after that BMW went down hill I am affraid for me and I didn't want to bother any more.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I fail to see how someone who drives a BMW 520d can possibly comment on what is and isn't common or premium, (notice I say 'common' not 'expensive') sorry

I do agree that Mercedes certainly is not as exclusive as it once was having looked into the history, but then there aren't a whole lot of Marques that are these days. Times for car manufacturers have been hard in recent years, they have all had to adapt and bring new models and ranges to cater for all walks of life and types of drivers. The automotive industry is a business like anything else, and if people aren't buying the cars then these manufacturers won't exist any more.

I have no problem with manufacturers extending their range to accomodate a wider market.

 

[SteveX]

In 1984 my best friend's dad drove a new red W123 230E. Everyone at school respected that car and knew what it stood for. What car would your old man have to turn up in outside the school gates nowadays to make the same impact?

You're suggesting the way to own a nice car is to impress children?:lol:

But I know what you mean, from when I was at school. Most people seem to be impressed when my dad dropped me off in his Skania truck lol.

As it happens, I normally walk to get my daughter from school to get some fresh air in our lungs, but on occasion when I have been behind and needed to rush there, there have been many comments and stares at my car, and that's on an 8 year old Merc!

 

[Peter C1974]

I've been a member on here for a number of years and I've posted over 350 times before starting this topic. Why would I be "trolling"?

I started a subject based on my opinions. Oddly enough, at a work related dinner last week I sat next to a guy who, completely unprompted by me, expressed his comments regarding current MB products and his views were identical to mine. We got talking because he saw me and my W123 in the car park and the conversation started from there. Ok, this man was in his late 60s, (I'm 39) so we shouldn't be surprised that his views are somewhat old fashioned.

As for my writing style, that's the way I write and the language I use. I don't do text speak, m8. I rely upon old fashioned phrases, sometimes for comic effect, other times to make a point. It worked!

I really don't want to take this much further. I don't regret starting this post but I will refrain from sharing my views on this forum in the future.

 

[obduro]

I've been a member on here for a number of years and I've posted over 350 times before starting this topic. Why would I be "trolling"?

trolling is defined as posting "posting deliberately inflammatory messages".

it's entirely subjective obviously, but I think it's the manner of what you said that has offended some people to varying degrees...personally I understood the context of what you meant but the use of the term "common folk" isn't the best way to endear yourself to people who don't necessarily have oodles of money to buy an MB and have had to work hard for the one they have (I am included in this).

I personally think if that 2nd paragraph of your initial post wasn't included it wouldn't have come this far, but it does look as though you're looking down on people which isn't nice.

not having a go, just saying....

 

[television]

Oh dear. I've touched a nerve. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a Mercedes man (my wife drives the 5 series more than I do) but my observations are valid, whether you lot like it or not.

Do you not see what I tried to suggest? Do you really believe that new Mercedes cars are as special now as they were in the past? What makes a C Class better than a 3 series BMW or an Audi A4? For that matter, is a Ford Mondeo an inferior car? They are all driven by photocopy machine repair men!

I wanted to highlight the FACT that Mercedes cars were once special, they were machines coveted by their owners, loved and cherished. My company (firm of chartered surveyors) runs a fleet of C Classes and most of the twenty something drivers don't give a **** what they drive.

By all means mock me, this is a public internet forum after all! You think that I wasn't ready for abuse? Ha!

But think about it, think back to how things were a few decades ago and you will agree that our favourite marque is not the icon it once was.

BMW or Audi are not the answer. Market conditions have changed and enabled everyone to get behind the wheel of an executive German made car. To stand out from the crowd you probably need a Bentley or a Rolls. I doubt you'd see many photocopy machine repair men turn up outside your office in one of those.

Yes without doubt back around 1990ish if you arrived in a Mercedes, then you arrived. And I have friends who bought their new ones just for that very reason. I also know of the impact my 300TE made on my neighbours and where I was working, that upset so many people.

Today thing have changed with many just buying a car to suit their own needs. The BMW bit is neither here nor there as there are good and bad in most cars.

I do agree that the way one can get attacked is not good or nice. I can recall a thread where I said I use EBC pads, and all hell let loose by the ones that do not like me. There have been 3 post since on EBC pads by others and not a word from the ones that attacked me.

It is the same when I have tried to post other unusual goings on.

The rotten thing is that I could discuss all the same subjects on other forums and it all runs well without any spiteful comments. As things stand there is littler chance of learning anything a little bit out of the ordinary.

Very sad that some members cannot separate their ill feelings and answer the thread in hand, this is an interesting thread as things have changed over the last 20 years, maybe not all are old enough to remember back in time.

Thanks for your thread Peter.

 

[Frontstep]

I have to stay on the fence I have EBC pads on the front and MB's on the back :lol::lol::lol:

 

[television]

I have to stay on the fence I have EBC pads on the front and MB's on the back :lol::lol::lol:

I do that on the V70R

 

[BAD Arrows]

Having read 17 pages of responses to my somewhat controversial original post I have the following to say:

Thank you to all those who agreed with me.
Thank you to all those who disagreed with me but were sensible enough to provide strong arguments to support their views, which were clearly very different to mine.
As for those Toms, Dicks and Harrys who felt the need to be to abusive and rude, in the words of gizze **** ***!

Surely a public internet forum is the place to express ones opinions and invite other members to discuss matters in a sensible fashion? Why do some members feel it is necessary to be abusive and rude just because they either do not agree with the OP’s comments or simply do not understand the point he tried to make? Poor show people.

Surely a public internet forum is the place to express ones opinions

I agree it is.

I only recently joined this forum and started contributing. I left pistonheads a long time ago because too many people were only interested in trying to get attention, online bullying and starting viral wars and as a car enthusiast that's the last I log on for.

I'm 100% up for a good debate on all things automotive, I own a vehicle tuning company and a small vehicle sales business and I've been obsessed with cars since I was in short pants. So if you log on with the questions/statement......."In my opinion Mercedes Benz are producing too many cars and selling them to cheap these days........and I prefer my 520d because I think it's a superior car to any equivalent Mercedes produce" then I and I'm sure many others would love a light hearted debate on Stuttgart v Muchen.....what you put though was simply offensive or not very well thought through.

I admit in the past I've typed things either on forums, text or email to people and thought that didn't I get the point across quite how I meant it and so I've apologised to the people I've offended.

From what I can tell this is a great forum with some real, true Mercedes enthusiasts involved at the heart of it's community and I'd just like to think we're better than having cheap digs at each other.

Anyway that's me done with this thread......I'm off to talk about the cars instead of offending the drivers B]

 

[SteveX]

I do agree that the way one can get attacked is not good or nice. I can recall a thread where I said I use EBC pads, and all hell let loose by the ones that do not like me. There have been 3 post since on EBC pads by others and not a word from the ones that attacked me.

I've used EBC on lots of cars, never any issues here, but that's for another thread

Unless the thread has been cleaned up, I haven't really seen any replies that have been out of line, a couple of comments came certainly close to crossing the line, but nothing too offensive.

 

[SteveX]

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[]"When my W123 was new (1985) it cost £10k, a great deal more than mainstream manufacturer's equivalent models and as in those days cheap and easy finance was not available Tom, Dick or Harry couldn't afford to get behind the wheel of a Mercedes. 30 years ago Mercedes cars were reserved for the well off and priveleged of our society."[/I]

I consider myself to be your "Tom, Dick or Harry", my parents didn't have much money, I went to a state school, grew up with second hand clothes/games and the closest I came to a Mercedes Benz was standing at the side of the road on my way home from school waiting for one to drive past. So your suggestion that only the "well of and privileged" should be able to own a Mercedes Benz is highly offensive. What are you worried about? Is it that people won't know "you are, considerably, considerably, rich'ar, than yow"?

Not today. With FWD base models on offer, cheap finance and mass production and sales, there is nothing special about a new Mercedes (unless it's a high spec SL, S, etc).

I've worked my absolute knackers off and I'm now lucky enough to own a Bentley Continental GT. Where I live these cars are 10 a penny because of cheap finance offers and mass production which means every footballer, drug dealer and company director around drives one. I see 3 other Bentley's every morning, does this mean my car is "nothing special"???? Absolutely not, because sales volume, production numbers and how much it costs to buy, only make a car special to the most shallow people on the planet, if your car has to tell people how rich and success you are then I really feel sorry for you, for me my cars are about driver enjoyment, about looking at it and truly appreciating what a great looking motor it is, and about how hard I've had to work to get it and about the joy it can brings me every time I drive it.

Have you seen the sort of people that drive around in new C and E Classes? Common folk!

Are you for real? At first I thought it was a joke but looking at your other comments you do nothing to suggest it is. And then you tell someone else not to get personal........really. How much better than the rest of society are you for driving such superior cars to everyone else? Never judge someone by what they have but by who they are.......driving a C or E class does not make you common, but thinking that it does, does make you stupid

The same goes for AMG. 30 years ago an AMG car was special. Today you can order a C180 adorned with AMG wheels, styling, badges, etc. I had an "AMG" Coupe C-Class last year, a 220CDi and the only thing AMG about it was the badges.

I have a lot of friends who will never be able to afford to run/justify a full blooded AMG model. They are however big petrol heads and big MB fans. Do you therefore think that because they're not "as rich as yow" they should be denied the privilege of some AMG magic? Should AMG be reserved for "the big boys" like yourself and everyone else needs to just pick a standard or luxury spec model? I currently also own an SLK 55 AMG. I'd have to be seriously over compensating for something if it I took offensive to the fact a close pal of mine has just bought an SLK 250CDI in full AMG guise. He works his fingers to the bone to afford it and is immensely proud to say it's his (and the finance companies). I'm glad he can share in the AMG experience and not miss out just because he isn't "well off and privileged". Let's also not forget the whores over in Munich who pimp out the M badge very aggressively and were doing so well before anyone in Afalterbach realised the value of brand association.

Modern Mercs are no longer premium products. They don't stand out from their competitors like they use to

BMW M3 or MB C63 AMG
BMW M5 or E63 AMG
BMW M6 Cabriolet of SL63 AMG roadster
BMW 120d or Mercedes A250 CDI.......

What supercar do BMW make again? 850i.......well it was half way to a supercar 14 years ago when they we're running it out of production. Z8, yeah I remember, that was a much better car than a SL65 AMG.

What supercars do/have Mercedes make/made recently.........
SLS
SLS Black Series
SLR
SLR Roadster
SL65 AMG
CLK DTM
CLK GTR....shall I go on?
.............what engine do Pagani choose to stack in a Zonda???? Aaah, yes, that would be an MB lump.

What motorsport activity are BMW involved in? BTCC........how about Mercedes? That beautiful sport called F1!!!!

Of course I'd love to go to a grotty Croft/Donny to watch a boring BMW touring car tootle round in the soaking wet when I could be watching a screaming Mercedes F1 car thunder around the streets of Monaco in scoring sunshine..........oh no, wait...... I wouldn't.

they rust, they break down

Highest placed BMW in last years JD power survey...........31.
Mercedes highest placed vehicle in last years JD Power survey........NUMBER 5!!!!!!!

I wouldn't buy one. In late 2011 I bought a new BMW 520d Touring and haven't looked back,

GOOD!

The reason I love my 3 pointed stars so much is because of the people who drive them and this online community proves that. Mercedes Benz are driven by people who are normal, they love a good car not because it increases the size of their man hood, not because it makes them feel better than their 5 series driving neighbour, not because it says "ow rich I am" but because they are special cars. Special cars that put a smile on your face every time you twist the key, cars that inspire you to go for a drive just for the hell of it, cars that remind you why you get up so early, go to bed so late and work so hard in between.

So does driving a Mercedes Benz still make you better than the next guy.....well only if he's driving a BMW 520d.

I was with you right until the end, I've never twisted the key in my 209, most of the time I don't even know where it is lol.

Good post though.

 

[obduro]

Yes without doubt back around 1990ish if you arrived in a Mercedes, then you arrived. And I have friends who bought their new ones just for that very reason. I also know of the impact my 300TE made on my neighbours and where I was working, that upset so many people.

Today thing have changed with many just buying a car to suit their own needs. The BMW bit is neither here nor there as there are good and bad in most cars.

what's to say that's not the case now though malcolm? everyone has gone crazy when they've seen my car the last few days. to me there are some models you can get that say "you have arrived" (not just the SLS and so forth, things like the E coupe, SLK AMG, C63 etc), however there are people who have pointed out that there are cars built by mercedes that are literally built to suit people's needs e.g. the old A class or current B class, C saloon etc.

i can't really comment if the debate is about build quality, I don't have the basis of comparison.

 

[Peter C1974]

what you put though was simply offensive

I am sorry but I don't share your opinion. My first post was not offensive, I did not insult anyone and I was not rude.

 

[obduro]

I am sorry but I don't share your opinion. My first post was not offensive, I did not insult anyone and I was not rude.

So "Common folk" is not insulting and doesn't put you above people?

This is the problem, I know there are a small percentage of people who look at me and believe I am too common to drive my Merc, and I've only had it 3 days!