Mercedes Unreliability

[les.sherry]

In 40 years of motoring I have had 16 cars. The first 14 where various Fords, British Leyland, General Motors and a couple of BMC Mini's. The last two were Mercedes E Class estates. During that 40 years I have had 2 breakdowns requiring my car to be recovered - yes you guessed right - one for each of the E Class estates. Have I been unlucky or is this what one should expect for Mercedes reliability these days?

Les Sherry

 

[Aussie Nick]

You have a point- of course. But then why did you buy two Mercedes, especially after the experience with the first?

 

[whitenemesis]

Interestingly you say "requiring my car to be recovered".

Does this mean that any previous (unspecified) breakdowns were fixed by the roadside?

In reality Mercedes of recent years are far more complex than any of your non-Merc vehicles. Many breakdown services now simply recover the car to the dealer.

 

[David Nock]

Well I can understand the 1st post - one hopes the 2nd merc will be a cut above everything else and be better than the 1st merc. But when it happens again......
Are there a lot of 'E's', because there does seem to be a disproportionate incidence of failing to live up to expectations on here.
The CLK on the other hand appears to get more praise than grumble.
I'm not biased here, I'm a merc man not a strictly CLK man, but am I right in my perception?

 

[les.sherry]

Hi Aussie Nick
I was naive enough to think the first one might be an isolated incident, but I know better now!!
Les Sherry

 

[johnmc]

Interestingly you say "requiring my car to be recovered".

Does this mean that any previous (unspecified) breakdowns were fixed by the roadside?

In reality Mercedes of recent years are far more complex than any of your non-Merc vehicles. Many breakdown services now simply recover the car to the dealer.

I disagree with your perception of that Mercs are more complex than other cars.
They are just poorly executed in design, period. Hopefully they'll fix it, but it can take ten years to recover quality. They started trying to fix it in 2005, so a long hard way to go for them.

The reality is that modern cars cannot be fixed at the roadside unless its something simple and obvious like a flat tyre, battery problems and so on.

Les, I agree with your perceptions on the E-class reliability and general quality. It's below expectations for the price of the cars by quite a long margin. Lexus is the benchmark today, no question.

John

 

[Parrot of Doom]

I think you've been unlucky. If you're trying to tell us that a 40 year old car is more reliable than a 4 year old car, you're off your rocker

 

[les.sherry]

Hi Whitenemesis
I do not recall any non Mercedes problem which rendered the car undrivable. Both the Mercedes problems were, the first being a ruptured fuel line and the second a broken front coil spring which happened whilst the car was parked on the drive!!
Les Sherry

 

[whitenemesis]

I disagree with your perception of that Mercs are more complex than other cars.
They are just poorly executed in design, period. Hopefully they'll fix it, but it can take ten years to recover quality. They started trying to fix it in 2005, so a long hard way to go for them.

The reality is that modern cars cannot be fixed at the roadside unless its something simple and obvious like a flat tyre, battery problems and so on.

Les, I agree with your perceptions on the E-class reliability and general quality. It's below expectations for the price of the cars by quite a long margin. Lexus is the benchmark today, no question.

John

I was comparing the complexity of the Merc with the OP's previous cars, not with current offerings

 

[Mercutio]

I disagree with your perception of that Mercs are more complex than other cars.
They are just poorly executed in design, period. Hopefully they'll fix it, but it can take ten years to recover quality. They started trying to fix it in 2005, so a long hard way to go for them.

The reality is that modern cars cannot be fixed at the roadside unless its something simple and obvious like a flat tyre, battery problems and so on.

Les, I agree with your perceptions on the E-class reliability and general quality. It's below expectations for the price of the cars by quite a long margin. Lexus is the benchmark today, no question.

John

You could be right. I saw somewhere that the Toyota highest expected parts fault is five per million.

I believe that certain other motor manufacturers have hit twenty thousand at times.

Can't imagine MB could ever have been that bad. Can I?

 

[st13phil]

<snip> the first being a ruptured fuel line and the second a broken front coil spring which happened whilst the car was parked on the drive!!
Les Sherry

Interesting that neither of these failures relate to complexity. Ignoring the possibility of accidental damage, the first could be caused by inappropriate design, substandard material or poor assembly; the second by inappropriate design or substandard material. Both point to poor quality - either in design or manufacture.

 

[brandwooddixon]

Well you've done better than me.
I've had every single car that I own recovered at some stage, all except two ( a Mk I cavalier which I only had for 6 months and a Mk II escort which I had to fix myself every 300 miles!).
Mk II escort - water pump failure on A38; piston cracked; tappet spring failure.
I thought I'd moved away from the need to carry a toolbox wherever I went when I bought a Senator 24V. My wife will attest to the length of time she spent waiting on the Vauxhall dealers forecourt. Still recovered when it ate a distributor cap and rotor arm near Pontifract; blew a top house in Kidderminster; destroyed the engine when the timing chain tensioner failed on the A66 near Penrith at midnight.
I've had two E class (w210) since then. The first (E320 straight 6) never had any problems, even though I covered 165,000 miles in 3 years.
The second (E430) has been recovered twice in 6 years: Crank sensor failure; V-belt pulley tensioner failure.
I think that on the whole my MBs have been the more reliable.

 

[rf065]

In 40 years of motoring I have had 16 cars. The first 14 where various Fords, British Leyland, General Motors and a couple of BMC Mini's. The last two were Mercedes E Class estates. During that 40 years I have had 2 breakdowns requiring my car to be recovered - yes you guessed right - one for each of the E Class estates. Have I been unlucky or is this what one should expect for Mercedes reliability these days?

Les Sherry

I think you are the luckiest bloke alive if you have only had 2 breakdowns in 40 years. Especially considering the reliability record of the cars you drove prior to Mercedes. The only cars I have ever had which never broke down have all been Japanese, plus the Mercedes, but early days with that as I have only had it since June.

Russ

 

[Mercutio]

I've broken down in many cars (including a BMW, a Mini, a Ford, a Vauxhall... and an MB).

I've never broken down in a Japanese car. (I've owned five).

This isn't at all surprising. Their quality control procedures are more demanding.

 

[jberks]

I've also broken down in most things at some time. None of my Es though. I've had Fords die on me (every Ford I ever owned at some time come to think of it), Audis blow up, rovers throw ECU errors etc. I'm not saying that the Mercs I've had have been swiss watch reliable, there have been the odd niggle, but nothing that has left them undriveable.
There is a black hole in MB reliability roughly between 1998 and 2004 and I wonder whether your cars both came from that era? Before that, MBs were considered to be top of their game, but overpriced. They reduced the prices and quality fell.
I had a 2000 model and there were a few issues. Nothing serious but it did come close to breaking down once when I had to nurse it to the workshop, and other issues that could be considered quality related did crop up.
Since 2004, quality has been climbing and facelift E classes are reputed to be vastly improved now. My dad has had a number of issues with his 2003 E class (211), yet mine, built maybe 18 months later has been virtually trouble free. (This is why I insisted on a late 04 model and rejected a very nice 03 one despite a good deal being on offer) The only fault that has required a dealer visit was a wheel position sensor a couple of months ago. This being after 2 years and 35,000 miles of use. Inconvenient but the car continued quite happily for several weeks until it was fixed. By all accounts, reviews of issues with newer E's, such as JD Power, show a drastic improvement with very few issues. In fact I believe the E class won a 'best improved' award.
All cars develop faults at some time. Even Japanese. Its down to luck as to whether the problem knocks out the entire car, as in your case,or whether it's just an annoyance that will wait until a repair is convenient. I never had a single issue with fuel pipes or suspension in my 5 years and 70,000 miles of ownership. Broken springs are a known issue admittedly on the 210 (many people drive on them for weeks before realising) but fuel lines are not and I suspect that this was caused by something other than poor quality or MB would have recalled them.
So, I'd say you've just been unlucky.

 

[jberks]

I've broken down in many cars (including a BMW, a Mini, a Ford, a Vauxhall... and an MB).

I've never broken down in a Japanese car. (I've owned five).

This isn't at all surprising. Their quality control procedures are more demanding.

Been discussed many times. If the Japanese could figure out how to build a proper interior, or build in any form of character into their cars, the Germans would be in trouble. But until they do, I'll risk the extra 5% reliability issue and have a car that is more interesting to own than a washing machine.

 

[Mercutio]

Been discussed many times. If the Japanese could figure out how to build a proper interior, or build in any form of character into their cars, the Germans would be in trouble. But until they do, I'll risk the extra 5% reliability issue and have a car that is more interesting to own than a washing machine.

Many would agree with you.

Isn't it odd, though, that we demand 'character' and 'interest' before reliability in a fearsomely expensive, mass produced consumer durable, but not in another, cheaper, one? If we were were rational it would be the other way round.

Still, if we were totally rational, I suppose we'd still be in caves.

 

[David Nock]

This is my 3rd go at doing this post beacause I just haven't had the same bad experiences as others. Next to no breakdowns in 45 years, with loads of cars and usually 18/20000 miles a year until retirement. Cars boringly reliable e.g 60,000 on Mondeos with ZERO faults! Not even a squeak! Mercs have continued this experience - totally reliable.
Our other car is a 23 year old RX7 which has never broken down and is totally contrary to what people are saying about boring Japs. It's got character in shed loads and is a fantastic driving experience.
Ah well I must be charmed!
I had to try 3 times 'cos I kept spitting my dummy out of the pram at every post. My mum once told me that my pram didn't ever break down either!

 

[grpar]

Many would agree with you.

Isn't it odd, though, that we demand 'character' and 'interest' before reliability in a fearsomely expensive, mass produced consumer durable, but not in another, cheaper, one? If we were were rational it would be the other way round.

Still, if we were totally rational, I suppose we'd still be in caves.

When you've been to MB Brentford and had to listen to what they say, you'll quickly curry favour with "reliability" and "consistency" over "character" and "heritage" any day ..... !

To sum up, my 54-plate C-class (post facelift) has in its short 34,000 miles suffered the following:

- a painfully thin paint finish.
- leftward drift, although "drift" barely begins to describe it.
- uneven tyre wear, plus 8 new tyres in just 34k miles.
- steering issues galore.
- rattling dashboard (eventually cured).
- numerous blow-outs of exterior lights.
- rattling interior rear mirror (now on the 3rd one).
- various suspension faults (still ongoing).

Not a lot of character or heritage going on there. It's BMW for me next time, and if they don't work as they should, I shall head to Lexus. Bit more consistency and reliability available at Lexus.

Good luck with your MBs. Bad luck if they go wrong .....

 

[Rory]

- leftward drift, although "drift" barely begins to describe it.

I have a facelift 2004 C Class and have the the same thing. Mine is quite good, as they go, the dealer says. I'm meeting the Service Manager next week for him to try it. If mines quite good, I'd hate to drive a bad one.

Other than that (I'm touching wood now) the car has been faultless.

What suspension issues have you had?