Mercedes W210 (E300 TD) Gearbox Thump!

[Glenn Smith]

You've been unlucky enough to buy the car from somebody who didn't look after it. What I've noticed about my ownership is the quality of the materials and components that I've replaced - they're much much higher than anything else I've owned, including Volvos and Audis. Its a shame you're so far away, I'd be quite happy to come around and give you a hand doing stuff on it.

The ATF dipstick tube is at the back of the engine bay, offside. It should have a red cap on it.

There is no dipstick because the dipstick is very long, and cannot reasonably be stored inside the car.. You have to either take it to the dealer for them to dip, or find someone who will sell you one.

I have an image of the dipstick somewhere, if I can find it I'll post it. You could use the measurements to make your own, its not hard. The length of the dipstick tube is irrelevant.

Even a badly looked after car shouldn't really have all these faults, especially one this age and mileage, ok some are wear items, but this is probably a longer list than i had in 7.5yrs ownership of a 1983 vauxhall cavalier, which i bought when 4yrs old and 84000miles and sold with just under 200000miles and it never had to go into a garage, even me old jag hasn't needed this much to bring up to tip top cond. (9yrs old and 172000miles)

 

[Parrot of Doom]

You can't compare a very very simple car like a 1983 Cavalier to a relatively modern premium car like a W210. You might as well compare a Commodore VIC20 to a Pentium PC.

 

[sheriff]

You can't compare a very very simple car like a 1983 Cavalier to a relatively modern premium car like a W210. You might as well compare a Commodore VIC20 to a Pentium PC.

Why not, the same engineering principles apply ? After all, if you pay a price premium for a "better engineered" car, would it not be a fair assumtion that it should be inherently more reliable than a "cheaply built" hatch ? I've only just bought into the Mercedes family after years of owning many of these "simple" reliable cars, and after reading quite a few posts on here, I'm wondering if I've done the right thing !

 

[Parrot of Doom]

A pneumatic drill is more powerful and more expensive than a hammer, but you won't find many hammers breaking down.

You won't find many posts about 'today I drove my Merc and nothing went wrong' on here, its not exactly the point is it

 

[television]

I drove my MB today it was OK

I drove the Volvo as well,that was OK too.

Just imagine a forum full of threads like this.

Malcolm

 

[sheriff]

A pneumatic drill is more powerful and more expensive than a hammer, but you won't find many hammers breaking down.

You won't find many posts about 'today I drove my Merc and nothing went wrong' on here, its not exactly the point is it

Fair comment, just thought I'd do the old Devils advocate bit

 

[Bruce Mansell]

Have you checked the gearbox fluid level as I suspect it is low. I had this problem and it went away when the gearbox was topped up. The reason for the fluid loss was that on the 722-6 box the bell housing is bolted to the gearbox and the fluid runs up the threads of the bolts into the bell housing and is dropped onto the road hence low fluid level. Look under the car at the bell housing and see if any fluid is visible. If this is the problem fill it up and have the box reset

 

[rjsdavis]

Have you checked the gearbox fluid level as I suspect it is low. I had this problem and it went away when the gearbox was topped up. The reason for the fluid loss was that on the 722-6 box the bell housing is bolted to the gearbox and the fluid runs up the threads of the bolts into the bell housing and is dropped onto the road hence low fluid level. Look under the car at the bell housing and see if any fluid is visible. If this is the problem fill it up and have the box reset

Thanks alot for the suggestion - the ATF level was checked by a Merc dealer about two weeks ago, and it was apparently spot on. The same Merc dealer test drove the car, and diagnosed it as a gear selection problem, that was probably being caused by the over-voltage problems that the ECU report threw up.....

I am having the voltage regulator on the alternator done tomorrow morning, and am expecting this to cause my intermittent - electric windows/cruise control/indicator/wash wipe problems to go away immediately - and the Merc dealer thought that it would also sort out the gearbox problems - as this was likely to be a relay/switch problem in the gearbox itself - will update on progress after the jobs done....

 

[rjsdavis]

Thanks alot for the suggestion - the ATF level was checked by a Merc dealer about two weeks ago, and it was apparently spot on. The same Merc dealer test drove the car, and diagnosed it as a gear selection problem, that was probably being caused by the over-voltage problems that the ECU report threw up.....

I am having the voltage regulator on the alternator done tomorrow morning, and am expecting this to cause my intermittent - electric windows/cruise control/indicator/wash wipe problems to go away immediately - and the Merc dealer thought that it would also sort out the gearbox problems - as this was likely to be a relay/switch problem in the gearbox itself - will update on progress after the jobs done....

Ok - the voltage regulator is in, and the car is running much more smoothly now. It does appear to have solved my intermittent electrical problems (windows / wipers / indicators) etc, and in over 100 miles since fitting, no apparent problems. I am just waiting to see how long it takes to blow a bulb.

As for the gearbox thump - it does seem to have had some effect - but I stress some - it certainly hasn't cured it.

I popped into TJ Autos in Canning Town earlier today - to talk to him about it, and he hooked it upto his diagnostic laptop. There were three problems listed under the Auto transmission - the two important ones were;

8 - R/P lock actuator y66/1
104 - R/P lock actuator y66/1 - intermittent short circuit.

Having looked up Y66/1 - this is the Reverse / Park solenoid (in the stick shift housing), and it is apparently this intermittent fault that is causing my unruly gearbox - does this sound right to anyone else.

Apparently, I am going to struggle to get the solenoid on it's own, and will need either a complete new or used auto stick shift box (about £280 new / £100 used) - what do you think?????

I am going to try to get the solenoid only from Mercedes........ I can only try!!!

 

[cflau]

Dear Djsdavis;

Like to know how you got on. Not that I have any solution but I read the story and am interested on the result. As an 1999 E320 owner myself, I can understand what Djsdavis has gone through.

But I think the Mercedes designers/engineers have a lot to answer here! It is obvious that Mercedes is much better at marketing than doing rpair /services. Again, will I buy another Mercedes? I will certainly think more carefully next time!

 

[eric242340]

Ok - the voltage regulator is in, and the car is running much more smoothly now. It does appear to have solved my intermittent electrical problems (windows / wipers / indicators) etc, and in over 100 miles since fitting, no apparent problems. I am just waiting to see how long it takes to blow a bulb.

As for the gearbox thump - it does seem to have had some effect - but I stress some - it certainly hasn't cured it.

I popped into TJ Autos in Canning Town earlier today - to talk to him about it, and he hooked it upto his diagnostic laptop. There were three problems listed under the Auto transmission - the two important ones were;

8 - R/P lock actuator y66/1
104 - R/P lock actuator y66/1 - intermittent short circuit.

Having looked up Y66/1 - this is the Reverse / Park solenoid (in the stick shift housing), and it is apparently this intermittent fault that is causing my unruly gearbox - does this sound right to anyone else.

Apparently, I am going to struggle to get the solenoid on it's own, and will need either a complete new or used auto stick shift box (about £280 new / £100 used) - what do you think?????

I am going to try to get the solenoid only from Mercedes........ I can only try!!!

Y66/1? I dont think so, the selector lever does go wrong and it is a common problem. But having read this thread thus far, I would say you have an input/output speed sensor problem on the plastic plate. This plate is mounted just above the valve body in the transmission. The plate does crack and causes input / output variations, which will cause intermittent problems with the tranny. These varients do not show up on the test equipment. Dont change the selector lever until you are absolutely sure about this. Benz is expensive enough without wrong diagnostics, so look before you leap as they say. Both the input and output sensors are mounted on this plastic plate.

 

[cflau]

Dear All,

The reason I am interested in this thread is that my 1999 E320 which is just got for 2 weeks has this same "thumping" problem and I have encountered this twice for the last week. I did get a 'Gear problem" in the diagnostics but without fault code. However, I did get fault code PO170 & PO173 on the Mass air sensor which my mechanics did replace an Mass air meter for me. This is the reason why I search carefully in this forum before I try to get a mechanics to fix the problem.. Look before you leap...as they say! At the mean time, I will use my 'new' car as little as possible. (67000km on the clock)

 

[television]

Dear All,

The reason I am interested in this thread is that my 1999 E320 which is just got for 2 weeks has this same "thumping" problem and I have encountered this twice for the last week. I did get a 'Gear problem" in the diagnostics but without fault code. However, I did get fault code PO170 & PO173 on the Mass air sensor which my mechanics did replace an Mass air meter for me. This is the reason why I search carefully in this forum before I try to get a mechanics to fix the problem.. Look before you leap...as they say! At the mean time, I will use my 'new' car as little as possible. (67000km on the clock)

If you want a fault code from the gear box,you must not turn engine off and go and have the codes read. They are Key clearing.

Malcolm

 

[cflau]

Thanks Eric & Malcolm for the suggestion, I shall get my mechanics to check the plate and re-read the fault code next monday.

 

[busby20]

My C Class had the same thump coming from the rear, I thought it was the rear diff. classic symptoms, but it wasn't ( anyone looking for a diff. ? ) it turned out to be the rear subframe mounts - totally shot. Had a new set fitted and it cured it.

 

[television]

My C Class had the same thump coming from the rear, I thought it was the rear diff. classic symptoms, but it wasn't ( anyone looking for a diff. ? ) it turned out to be the rear subframe mounts - totally shot. Had a new set fitted and it cured it.

Just shows there care that is needed in answering, thank you for your input we can advise accordingly.

Malcolm

 

[cflau]

Dear Guys,

Eventually I had the sensor plate replaced (where the input/output speed sensors are mounded), there were minor cracks on the plate but on top, the mechanics suggested to replace the two numbers of uni-directional bearings within the gear box which he suspected was the cause. It was a costly replacement ( similar to the price tag of a gear box overhaul), but after 3 weeks now no more thumping. So I hope this problem is now resolved. Fingers crossed.

 

[eric242340]

Congratulations are in order, you did look before you leapt and got a result. Im impressed with your perserverence, diagnostics are difficult at the best of times and no matter how good the mechanic/test equipment is, we all make mistakes. But for the owner this can be very expensive. Again well done that man. I may add here that there is always cause and effect. The input/output speed sensors were giving the wrong signals to the EGS (control unit for tranny) and the constant thumps resulted in the internal tranny damage. Thats why it cost so much. If they simply repaird the effect (the internal damage) and not the cause (input/output sensors) the the tranny would have been ok for a very short time and then the problem whould have come back. So full marks to the Mechanics here.

 

[eric242340]

Congratulations are in order, you did look before you leapt and got a result. Im impressed with your perserverence, diagnostics are difficult at the best of times and no matter how good the mechanic/test equipment is, we all make mistakes. But for the owner this can be very expensive. Again well done that man. The gear train in the centre of the transmission was not the cause it was the effect. Wrong input and output signals caused your damage tranny.

 

[rjsdavis]

Dear Djsdavis;

Like to know how you got on. Not that I have any solution but I read the story and am interested on the result. As an 1999 E320 owner myself, I can understand what Djsdavis has gone through.

But I think the Mercedes designers/engineers have a lot to answer here! It is obvious that Mercedes is much better at marketing than doing rpair /services. Again, will I buy another Mercedes? I will certainly think more carefully next time!

I've decided to leave it. I know when it will happen, therefore have adapted my driving style so that it never actually happens - I think it is the gearbox holding onto the gear for a little bit too long before changing down ..... I.e - if I was driving along some single carriageway at about 50mph, and then slowed to approach a roundabout - the speed that I slow down to is the crucial point.

If I were to slow down to about 25mph and just join the roundabout, there would be no problem, as the car would not need to change down, and could continue happily in 4th (in auto mode). If however, I slowed down to 10-15 mph, (because of a car on the roundabout already), and then I was too quick on the throttle again to gather more speed, I would get the thump. It's as if, its decided too late that it needed to change down to 2nd after all, but it didn't get it right.

In this same example, if I were to pull up at the same roundabout junction and come to a complete stop, i can actually feel the point at which the gear is released (or at least that's what I think it is), and if I pause for a second to wait for the release, I can then get back on the throttle and go on without a problem.

I throttle before that "release" - I'll get a thump - whose magnitude is determined by how hard the braking was, and how much throttle I give it to move on again.

It can also be overcome by simply using the semi-auto box in manual mode, and physically changing gear down to 2nd in anticipation of those situations where I know it will happen.

Therefore, I never did get to the bottom of it, and I still don't know anyone that knows the cars well enough to properly assist - inc. MB dealers!