My Mercedes is smoking badly

[Calumcco]

Hi everyone, I have come to this forum to try and get some help as I trust someone on here will know what is wrong with my car.

I have an H Reg (1990) 300CE-24 Mercedes. Since May this year it has been smoking when I take off from a stationary place e.g. traffic lights. When I take off a plume of white smoke comes out of the exhaust. I have also noticed smoke billowing past my windows when I am in a traffic jam or at a stand still.

I ignored the problem until this month as I have noticed that along with the smoking the car also feels like it is shuddering and almost like it is going to cut out, however it has never done this.

I took it to a local garage and explained this and they said it was either the cylinder heads or the piston rings and they wanted to charged me £120 for 2 hours labour to investigate further. I didn't want to pay this so I took my car out of the garage in the hope of finding a cheaper solution. The garage itself told me the problem would be "cost effective".

I took it to another garage and they didnt do work on my kind of car but he recommended me to a man who has a garage and specialises in Mercedes'. However he also told me it "wouldn't be cheap"

I decided to check my water tank as I hadn't done that in the 2 years that I have owned the car, the water was about halfway full in the tank, so I filled up a kettle of water and filled up my tank but as it got to the top there was a load of "brown sludge" in my water tank, it is gloopy. I put the cap back on and looked at it again a week later and the level hadn't gone down but the brown sludge was still in there as well.

I really don't have a clue about cars, I don't understand anything mechanical so I am at the mercy of a garage. I just thought that before I pay out big money an "enthusiast" who knows more than me might be able to give me a solution!!!

Thank You

 

[Matt32AMG]

Hi everyone, I have come to this forum to try and get some help as I trust someone on here will know what is wrong with my car.

I have an H Reg (1990) 300CE-24 Mercedes. Since May this year it has been smoking when I take off from a stationary place e.g. traffic lights. When I take off a plume of white smoke comes out of the exhaust. I have also noticed smoke billowing past my windows when I am in a traffic jam or at a stand still.

I ignored the problem until this month as I have noticed that along with the smoking the car also feels like it is shuddering and almost like it is going to cut out, however it has never done this.

I took it to a local garage and explained this and they said it was either the cylinder heads or the piston rings and they wanted to charged me £120 for 2 hours labour to investigate further. I didn't want to pay this so I took my car out of the garage in the hope of finding a cheaper solution. The garage itself told me the problem would be "cost effective".

I took it to another garage and they didnt do work on my kind of car but he recommended me to a man who has a garage and specialises in Mercedes'. However he also told me it "wouldn't be cheap"

I decided to check my water tank as I hadn't done that in the 2 years that I have owned the car, the water was about halfway full in the tank, so I filled up a kettle of water and filled up my tank but as it got to the top there was a load of "brown sludge" in my water tank, it is gloopy. I put the cap back on and looked at it again a week later and the level hadn't gone down but the brown sludge was still in there as well.

I really don't have a clue about cars, I don't understand anything mechanical so I am at the mercy of a garage. I just thought that before I pay out big money an "enthusiast" who knows more than me might be able to give me a solution!!!

Thank You

Sounds Like head gasket to me if you are puffing white smoke/steam. It'd be blue if you had valves or ring issues in my opinion.

What you need to do is get someone to do a sniffer test in the header tank to confirm if it's a head gasket that has blown. Or a compression test, this will identify if the rings or valves have gone. I believe it's the former and that being the case, it's a head off and skim, and fit new head gasket.
It's not the end of the world... Oh you'd be able to get it tested in about half an hour tops to confirm 100% what the issue is. Suggest you go to a specialist and not main dealer.

Good luck with it.

 

[Calumcco]

Thank you.
What price range would a head gasket be?
And do you have any idea what the sludge could be?
And why would the car be shuddering, could it cut out completely?

 

[biglips]

I agree this sounds like a head gasket.

 

[kth286]

it is the antifreeze in the coolant getting into the bores of the engine and causing white smoke/steam.

also some oil is getting into the coolant circuits.

it sounds a bad case of head gasket blown (likely in more than one place) probably because you keep driving it.

you need to stop using it and take it to a specialist in older Mercedes.

it needs a specialist because there are some quirks with these engines that they will know about when assembling the top of the engine and cam chain etc.

let us know where you live and we can suggest some specialists.

Likely cost (if head gasket needs replacing etc) is £600 - 800.

 

[Calumcco]

I live in Luton, someone recommended someone in the town centre

 

[mandrake]

certainly sounds like the head gasket .as for a specialist garage .i would have asumed any decent garage worth there salt would be able to do the job ,as there not that special ,best bet is get a few quotes i used to live in luton and there used to be a rather good garage in bury park. this is the one H M Car Repairs
42 Bury Park Road, Luton LU1 1HE 01582 450170 ‎ give him a go

 

[Quick Silver]

Thank you.
What price range would a head gasket be?
And do you have any idea what the sludge could be?
And why would the car be shuddering, could it cut out completely?

The brown sludge or gloop is an emulsion of oil and exhaust gases mixed with coolant and will smell of rotten eggs (hydrogen sulphide)

My guess is that the head gasket is blown across one or more cylinders and the gloop is fouling the plugs causing it to misfire hence the shuddering. Yes it could cut out completely and if bad enough refuse to start. If a cylinder fills with water it wont even turn over and it could snap the crankshaft or bend the con rods as water is not compressable.

Best to get it fixed ASAP AS IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE. The gaskets are not expensive but it is a labour intensive job and thats what costs money.

 

[Calumcco]

Suprisingly the brown sludge is odourless as I smelt inside the water tank!

What causes head gaskets to blow if thats what this problem is? Is it high mileage, because my car has done 197800 miles which is very high.

 

[mandrake]

many things can cause a head gasket failure ,and one of them is high milage .a head gasket has a shelf life as most other car parts have . at one time you could nigh on gaurantee most car head gasket would go at a within a certain milage mileage . your failure seems to be between the oil and water gallery have you checked your oil for imulsifing as if a head gasket goes between pots you will suffer low or no compression in those cylinders. if a head gasket fails between a water gallery and a cylinder you will have pressurising probs and overheat ther are other symptoms of head gasket failure too .it is important that you get it done asap as engine damage may occure if you dont. ps a preasure test of the head needs to be done also

 

[umblecumbuz]

Basics first.

Check the dipstick oil level and quality. Very low oil, or emulsified oil (ie - sludgy on the dipstick), may point to an internal water/oil mix. Possible head gasket failure - although as you seem to have driven the car for ages without carrying out normal checks, any sludgy oil could just be lack of maintenance.

Next, ask your local garage to do a compression test.
This will identify if any cylinder is under par. If it is, that suggests what others have been saying - head gasket failure. If all cylinders read within normal limits, then the time has come to look elsewhere for the fault.

Try that first, and come back to this forum if need be - plenty of excellent advice here.
Baz.

 

[Quick Silver]

many things can cause a head gasket failure ,and one of them is high milage .a head gasket has a shelf life as most other car parts have . at one time you could nigh on gaurantee most car head gasket would go at a within a certain milage mileage . your failure seems to be between the oil and water gallery have you checked your oil for imulsifing as if a head gasket goes between pots you will suffer low or no compression in those cylinders. if a head gasket fails between a water gallery and a cylinder you will have pressurising probs and overheat ther are other symptoms of head gasket failure too .it is important that you get it done asap as engine damage may occure if you dont. ps a preasure test of the head needs to be done also

I have the same engine in a 1990 SL and I keep a regular check on the gaskets as probably all original gaskets and they are decomposing with age ,I have just replaced the exhaust manifold gasket for that very reason.
The head gasket is noted for leaking on the rear end of the engine when it goes. The car has only done 75000 miles from new but is 21 years old, so mileage isn't really an issue

 

[Some guy on the internet]

certainly sounds like the head gasket .as for a specialist garage .i would have asumed any decent garage worth there salt would be able to do the job ,as there not that special ,best bet is get a few quotes i used to live in luton and there used to be a rather good garage in bury park. this is the one H M Car Repairs
42 Bury Park Road, Luton LU1 1HE 01582 450170 ‎ give him a go

That may be so but it strikes me as bad advice. Why take it to someone who may never have worked on one of these engines when there are MB indys & specialists who will charge about the same as any decent garage, who have done this job before, who know the best way to do it based on previous experience & already know how to do it properly?

 

[Calumcco]

Thank you everyonw for your help and advice
I am getting my car seen to at 2.30 this afternoon, I will let you know what happens.

 

[prwales]

you are looking at £1000-£1200ish to have the job done properly by a specialist, more from a main dealer. This work ought to include valve stem oil seals and any valve regrinding required. It will be more if your water pump has failed.

 

[mandrake]

That may be so but it strikes me as bad advice. Why take it to someone who may never have worked on one of these engines when there are MB indys & specialists who will charge about the same as any decent garage, who have done this job before, who know the best way to do it based on previous experience & already know how to do it properly?

well i worked as a mechanic in leeds many years ago may i add, at a garage most of what were lovingly called back street garages they had to be experienced on not one or two types of cars ,but the majority of cars . i worked on types from the humble mini the first type not these new bits of tat . up to rolls royce and ferrari and porche and all other types in between bmw and mercs . also when we had a car in that wanted a new engine we used to rebuild them not bung a new one in . i will agree that today with most cars virtualy unworkable on without diagnostic equipment some smaller garages may struggle but as for a head gasket on may i say an old merc then any mechanic that cannot do that needs to get another job its a basic engine used for years old tech. do one on a old rover 820 twin cam the one with the honda engine now thats complicated they are the only engine in the world that dont run as a normal engine , but not beyond a good mechanic i agree that a indi merc garage knows all the ins and outs of newer models but i doubt he is much better if any better on the older types and the do tend to charge that bit more

 

[kth286]

well i worked as a mechanic in leeds many years ago may i add, at a garage most of what were lovingly called back street garages they had to be experienced on not one or two types of cars ,but the majority of cars . i worked on types from the humble mini the first type not these new bits of tat . up to rolls royce and ferrari and porche and all other types in between bmw and mercs . also when we had a car in that wanted a new engine we used to rebuild them not bung a new one in . i will agree that today with most cars virtualy unworkable on without diagnostic equipment some smaller garages may struggle but as for a head gasket on may i say an old merc then any mechanic that cannot do that needs to get another job its a basic engine used for years old tech. do one on a old rover 820 twin cam the one with the honda engine now thats complicated they are the only engine in the world that dont run as a normal engine , but not beyond a good mechanic i agree that a indi merc garage knows all the ins and outs of newer models but i doubt he is much better if any better on the older types and the do tend to charge that bit more

would you be familiar with the technique to avoid the camshaft breaking after engine assembly on the Merc 104 engine ?

 

[mandrake]

not of hand now as i have been out of the motor trade for a long time, in fact just after ford decided to bring out the mondeo . but if i was still in the job ,i would pride myself in saying yes . i could ask you if you know how to maufacture a timing belt tensioner for a ferrari mondial when one from the dealer was not available. it was a job i had to undertake once and succeded within 24 hours i must admit i did have acess to an engineering shop . i also had to reconvert one of the first nissan turbos to a non turbo one when the nissan dealers could not get the parts to repair the car

 

[Calumcco]

The garage owner rang me today and said it was either the piston rings or valve guides or valve seals or both. He didnt seem to want to fix it as he didnt offer to fix it or give me a quote.

He said if he was me he would buy a second hand engine for a 300CE-24 and put a completely new engine in the car. He said if the car had done 50,000 miles he would put some new rings in but he semmed to be suggesting that as my car was approaching 200,000 miles it wouldn't be worth repairing.

But the problem is I dont know the first thing about engines and even if I found one and bought it it could have the same thing that is wrong with mine and I cant install an engine and how f****** much would that cost?

I am in a right mess at the moment, I am stranded

 

[Some guy on the internet]

No mention of a head gasket at all?

I'm afraid this is the reason you need to see someone who knows these cars. You know nothing you didn't know before seeing this guy & have wasted time & money achieving this.

Does anyone know a MB indy near Luton or in N. London who could tell the OP what he's looking at?